A Cowgirl from Colorado | Cheryl Hunter

Episode Topics:

• Learn how to turn your biggest trauma into your most powerful message.
• Discover why sharing your story is the final piece of true healing.
• Find out how to get your mission-driven message onto major media platforms.
• Understand why “monsters live in the dark” and how to bring them into the light.
• Get inspired by someone who turned unthinkable adversity into global impact.

 

Rick Jordan  

What’s shakin’? Hey, I’m Rick Jordan, and today we’re going all in. I don’t have a bio for you in front of me. I have a lot of notes about you. I’ve looked you up. Of course, my team and I put some great stuff together. So the four-time TEDx speaker, life coach,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Rick Jordan, yeah, no. God, not a life coach. God, no, that’s like 20 years old. Thank you. 

 

Rick Jordan  

But no, no, yeah.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I was like, “Somebody, yeah, helped me create that years ago.” They were like, “You should do that; that’ll help you get into media.” No, funny, I help people get mission-driven. Experts gain an audience of millions through major media. Nice, okay, they can change the world. Now, I got into that because I’d gotten my own message out to the world. Yeah, yeah. I was kidnapped as a teenager and overcame it, found a way to help people overcome adversity, and was like, “I want to share this with the world.” And it took me a decade, and I thought, “Aha, I got to help.” There are other people out there. I was a network TV writer at the time, so I was connected in major media and thought, “That’s impossible.” People don’t stand a chance without somebody on the inside showing them the ropes. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Oh, you got that right? Are we recording everyone? Are we good? Then where did we start? There we go. This is how this rolls. Let’s go back to the beginning now. No, no. I mean, this is great for real. I mean, we’ll start at the right time, but everybody’s listening. This is how things are amazing. When really amazing guests come on, like Cheryl, we’re just talking, Jordan. Thank you for real. It’s, it’s like, Cheryl’s a pro. We already get that, right? We’ve already got this going, so we’ve determined that she’s not a life coach. Like, how about a death coach? That’s funny. It’s hysterical. Yeah, so here’s, here’s what I have something on you, right? But I love how you’re describing yourself already, right? Four-time TED Talk speaker, right? Which is amazing. That’s incredible. You were talking about your story. You were also, and we have your one-liner, which is so well crafted, it’s amazing. You know that helping people send their message, I’m gonna paraphrase. I’m gonna screw it up. I’m really gonna screw it up. But the parts that I grabbed out of it is like, especially at the end, like, getting your message out there through major media, it’s using major media as a tool to help get your message to millions. It’s phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. And thank you. We’ll talk a lot about that today, because, okay, good. I do a lot of major media, too. I don’t know if you Googled me.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Sure do I know I was like, first of all, how in the hell did you get on the CW? But still, I was like, the bloombergs and the news maxes and Fox. And I’m like, “Ass kicker.” Thank you. When I wrote network TV, I thought, “God,” and I’ll say this later, but the media has such a power to impact our collective narrative, and what if we used it for good?” Yeah. So that became my whole mission.

 

Rick Jordan  

I enjoy that. That’s one of the biggest parts I love about doing major media is and I can tell the same with you, because I saw some of your clips, and you are not the typical guest. It’s very similar to me. It’s like they’re expecting I love it in my industry, like with tech, you know, because I’ll do political talks and all of that too. But in my industry, this is exactly how I show up on Bloomberg and Fox. Everything is just on my black T-shirt. They love the interaction. But at the same time, I’m not the guy who tech with the cybersecurity company that comes up with big old freaking muff headphones on the remote, the gaming microphone. You’re the same way. You’re very authentic. You are you when you show up in the media, which had to have taken some time. 

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I’m a cowgirl from Colorado; the hell I grew up mucking out stalls. My dad was like, if you get you know, he would just always say, if you get your head on crooked, nothing will straighten it out, like standing out in a pile of horse.” I don’t know what words I can say on here. Better not, but you know,

 

Rick Jordan  

He can say anything. In my last show, I dropped an F-bomb. It was unexpected, but it just happened. And there it goes. That’s relevant. Yeah, it was, yeah. It was just one of them, right on one; it was a very powerful focus, the goal line like that. I’m sure everyone asks you this. You went on major media, obviously, right? And you use your message, your very unique message, about being abducted when you’re 18, and was that the catalyst? Because we don’t have to dive into that. I know you’re open to talking.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

No, we can dive into that. I think it without the frame of that. It’s like, well, you just wanted to be on TV. That’s a good point. You know what? I mean? It’s like you. Why?

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, it’s shifted over the years, though, of course, your message has because now you go on because you have a message to get out. Of course, that was your original message, but now you’re helping others do the same thing, right?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Right? I realized, man, we could. We could change the entire world by getting people who’ve got something to say and want to help people an audience of millions.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I love that. I love that. There was one time I was on Newsmax. It was a, I think it was two years ago. They were talking about the Instagram algorithm, and because there are points to where you get to in media, it’s exactly what you’re saying. You’re going to get your message across. Have you noticed that they bring you on for a certain reason, and then, but you go on and it’s like you just can’t be that masked person who they want you to be. And that had to have taken some time, too. I mean, it was fun, because I went head-to-head with Bob Sellers on NewsMax while he was trying to get me to speak against big tech over the whole Instagram algorithm female body shaming thing. Yeah. And, like, three times I danced around his question because it was a very political charge, a politically charged question. And then last I was like, All right, Bob,” I laughed. I literally laughed. Like, if you want to go there, we’ll go there. And I’m like, What about responsible parenting, Bob? Can we talk about that? Can we talk about building your kids ‘ self-esteem and self-worth, their whole image of themselves first, so that this doesn’t affect them? I don’t think big tech hurts. You know, he has a hand in that. It was, it was fun for me, because I actually got to be my authentic self in front of what you’re talking is like, literally millions. You know, the ratings on that were like 3.7 million viewers on that, on that segment. And I was like, Man, this literally can change the world like you’re talking about.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

And that authenticity that you’re talking about—nothing creates an authentic connection like when we speak from our authentic core, you know, heart to heart; people are moved by that. It’s a visceral, this visceral, visceral, palpable response that we have to something like that, true authenticity amongst the sea of surface level, in authentic platitudes that are out there. Somebody who’s truly being authentic, like you, with that, like, going, “All right, we’ll go there.”

 

Rick Jordan  

 It was fun to dance around at first for you, but I’m going to dive deep. Because do you remember the first time you told your story, like the very first appearance that you had? You know, can you walk me through, like, literally, how you were feeling in those moments? Because you can get practiced at it, you know, you figure like your 10th, your 100th, right? It comes out more fluently. You feel it every time, but it had to have been a unique experience that very first time you told it,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

it was a unique experience. The first time I told it. And what was kind of interesting was I I told it, I was on a film set and telling it privately, kind of putting out of my mind that I was saying this to what would be, ultimately, a large group of people. So what happened was, after I was kidnapped, one of the ways that I survived, I was a teenager, and we don’t have the, I don’t know, the acumen, the savvy at that age, to really deal with, oftentimes, that with which we’re faced. And so for me, the best way I could come up to deal with it was just pretend it didn’t happen. And that only gets just so far. I would say to my mom, I’m really depressed, and she’s and yet I didn’t tell her what happened. And she goes, do you mean bored? And I’m like, no, no, no, not bored, like bona fide depressed. And so she said, Well, there’s an old adage, go help someone who’s got it worse than you. And so I started volunteering at elder care facilities because I thought, I’m young, screwed in the head and have no future. Who’s worse than me? Oh, old screwed in the head, and have no future because no one wants to listen to them. And I thought, Aha. And I went to these elders from silver there.

 

Rick Jordan  

 I’m not taking away, but it’s what was that humor can be used as that kind of if you don’t mind, I’ll stop you other ways, through, because partially through, and we’ll keep going afterwards. Yeah, that’s when I catch things, you know, as you’re saying, it’s like that humor is a way to try to mask those things and disassociate

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Well and and I find it, yes, you can disassociate with it. But also, there’s something so therapeutic in being able to you. Provide for yourself the objectivity that laughter and humor provides. And this was one of the things I learned at these old age homes. I would sit there and just listen to these people, and before long, something started to click. I thought, well, I could go read books like Viktor Frankl Man’s Search for Meaning, which is brilliant, or I could learn it myself, and at that age, I wanted to learn it myself from these people, and some of them had gone through something like the Holocaust, literally. And one was understandably hardened for life, and another went on to live a happy, productive, fruitful life. And war vets and people who’d been through the unthinkable. I thought, I’m not the first person to go through adversity. What do these people know? And I started to break it down and codify what worked and what didn’t. And I came up with a way to overcome adversity, and I started helping people use this framework for themselves, survivors, mostly other survivors of sexual assault, trafficking, et cetera. And it worked. Now by this point, my day job was writing network TV, and I thought, God, we have our hands on something through major media there, we create these water cooler moments where people around the nation, around the world, are talking about the same thing. What if they were talking about something that was for good, like how to overcome adversity, for example. And I set about trying to share this framework that I created through major media now the first time, you know, I had waited all these years to share, and I thought, I’m no longer a teenager. Holding my voice in, biting my tongue, doesn’t serve anybody anymore. It doesn’t serve me. I’m no longer a child who was afraid of being tracked down and killed. I’m just gonna speak. And I had all the reasons why I never had everyone will know how filthy and ruined and dirty I am. I thought what these men did to me defiled me forever, but again, that was the thinking of a teenager. I worried that one of the things that people would say was, why did you not stay until these men were put in jail instead of running for your life? And I thought, You know what that was? The best I could do then was survive. I will deal with those things if they come up. I thought, what if somebody tries to implicate me or say it was my fault? And that has happened in media interviews. People have asked me those kinds of questions, and I’m again, no longer a teenager. And I thought, ultimately, I can be the voice for those people who were like I was back when I was a teenager and felt too weak, too ruined, to stand up for myself. And I can give a voice to this, not only the experience that I shared with so many, but rather what’s possible on the other side. And I decided, no matter how uncomfortable it was, it was my sacred duty to share as loudly and as far and wide as I possibly could.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s beautiful as I’m listening to you, I start thinking about all these opinions that others would have. It’s like, why didn’t you stick around, you know, to see them put in the jail? And it’s like, it’s usually, usually opinions and judgments, you know, more often than not, are based upon all the wrong things, right? It’s, it’s, it’s ignorance, it’s lack of facts. Yeah, they’re just basing it on things that they don’t understand, that they don’t know. And that’s typically where it comes from. So I could see that perspective. It’s like, if I just was objective, I shouldn’t say objective, more like subjective, right? And just took it from my own experiences, my own life. I’d be like, yeah, what the hell I just stick around and, like, stick it to them, you know? But that’s a processing moment, you know? That led me to some more question. I don’t know. I didn’t watch all of your interviews around this, you know. But surely, because of what happened, there had to be some processing, some healing. Obviously, it’s trauma, you know, and it’s not something that you can forget, obviously, but you’ve chosen it to empower you, which is so freaking commendable. And then at the same time, you know, I start to think it’s like, how did that affect at the time, you know, did it delay your desire to be in any kind of relationship? Did it affect relationships early on, you know, good during that, that healing process that was going on because everybody just, unless you go through it, I’ve never been through something like that one. It’s, it’s very different. Is clearly between a man and a woman, unless it’s like a child abuse scenario, I would think. But even that’s an ignorant statement from my perspective, good, just because I’ve never been through it, you know. So I’m curious, what was the transition period between going through what you did to where you’re like, I’m gonna get my message out there. What was that healing like?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Well, I’m blessed to have been raised by a mother who was a seeker. She was always on a spiritual path. And one of the spiritual type adages that she would share with me was that old adage, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And at first I was like, Well, I don’t want this pile of crap that I went through to be my teacher. I’d like to choose a teacher, ideally, one that looks something like Yoda. But I was like, and yet I can’t deny here is this thing that occurred, and what if the teacher is just what life hands us, now.

 

Rick Jordan  

Which sometimes it is, right? Yeah,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I really think so as well. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, it’s right there.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

The most vexing things from which we are suffering. That’s the teacher, right? And I thought, well, what if I just say yes to whatever’s here on my path? And so if somebody recommended a book, I thought, all right, well, that’s my journey right now. That’s my teacher. Or if someone recommended a personal development program. I’ll do that. And I started taking some personal development programs. And you know, I didn’t know exactly what they were going to do, but I knew I was hurting. I knew I needed help. I knew I hadn’t I had to go. I was at the proverbial fork in the road. I couldn’t continue to suffer. There was just no way. And it was helpful being with the old people, but it wasn’t everything, and I wanted something else, so I started taking personal development programs. I had taken everything they offered. And said, “Well, what else do you have?” I feel so much better when I’m here. And they said, Well, you can train to lead them. And I go, ah, that’s not what I want to do with my life, per se. And they said, well, at least you would be at sort of the author of or at the source of the education if you did that. So I got trained to be a leader of these programs because I thought it would make me feel better, and it did, but it was massively therapeutic. Some of the distinctions were things like radical ownership. And while it would never happen, I would never say something like, “And they would never say something like, You’re to blame for being kidnapped when you were a teenager. It was I wanted some of the things that I could own is, Well, where did I go with that? Like how I’d said, I made up that I was damaged and ruined and forever scarred, and I started to own those things. And each time I found that, I got a surge of power, and I wanted to continue to give it away to other people. And that’s when I decided to start sharing my voice. I you know, I had codified that framework that I found was very therapeutic in overcoming the adversity, the things that I had gotten while volunteering at these old age homes. But the final piece of all of it that was unbeknownst to me at the time was the piece about sharing my own journey. I had kept it inside for more than a decade, and I realized that sharing that which I had experienced was the final piece that would allow me to truly heal. Now, for some people, that’s like, you know, a trusted friend or loved one, or maybe like a support group or something.

 

Rick Jordan  

You’re right, shouting it out to millions is not for everybody. Yes.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I mean, you know, you talk about the impact of trauma, yeah, right on, and there is something therapeutic about being able to own it and speak it, give it a name, and I don’t mean trauma sharing, but authentically sharing the insights, the lessons, and the other side to shine a light on the path.

 

Rick Jordan  

Or it’s like for those, right? Or it’s like the Brooklyn Zoo. You said, “Give it a name,” but it is, I mean, even though this is humorous, it’s bang on the Brooklyn zoo, I guess for Valentine’s Day this year, is allowing you to buy a cockroach for $15 and name it and watch it be eaten, but you name it after your ex. No, February 14. Yeah, it’s hilarious. Absolutely. So funny, yeah, but it’s what you’re saying. I mean, it’s humor, an extreme, I mean, to me, very funny, right? In my, my boyish ways, right? Very funny that you can name a cockroach after your ex and want to be eaten. Yeah, that’s great, but still, there is no joke. It’s like, it’s the what you’re saying. It’s like, even like the burning parties. You know that, and I know that women will have with their ex and put all their excess stuff in something and light it on fire. But what you’re talking about is powerful, because it’s acknowledgement. Yeah, do you like how I spun that back around? Like literally naming something, giving it a name is acknowledgement. It is extremely therapeutic.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

And one of the things that I found over the years was so common to those who had gone through adversity, trauma, or, you know, specifically, survivors of abuse, is that we will hide that, yeah, and hiding it. I don’t this may sound dorky, but I’m going to name

 

Rick Jordan  

cockroaches. Okay, be as dorky as you want. Okay, I’m going to name drop; this is heavy stuff at the same time. It’s, it’s, it’s real, and there’s some humor we can pull out of that to make it relatable to dorky. Yeah,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Yeah. Dr. Phil said, “Okay, so I’m named driving.” Dr Phil said monsters live in the dark. And he said that I was blessed to have him interview me, and I realized, yes, when we hide our experience and again, it doesn’t need to be shared with the world. That’s not for everyone, but when we hide that which we’ve endured, it continues to have us by the throat, as it were, versus when we’re able to share it, we are liberated from the constraints of the past. And there are those for whom sharing their experience, their mission, and their passion with the world is the only way to go. And once I had truly gotten my message out on a global scale, like to hundreds of millions of people, I recognized, you know what? I love the work that I did to help people overcome trauma, but there’s an entire industry dedicated to that, and I’m going to let the psychotherapists and psychiatrists et cetera handle that. There’s nothing that exists to help those with a mission on their heart become renowned for that mission, that pass it that passion, their brand, whatever that is. And I mean, I wrote network TV when I tried to get my message out to the world, and it took me a decade, and I thought, there is not a hope. Or, as my pop used to say back on the horse ranch in Colorado, there ain’t a snowball’s chance in hail. I like how you ranchers, we all kind of talk like we’ve got a twang. I don’t care if it is from Rock, Colorado.

 

Rick Jordan  

Eliminate the twang. I’m just curious.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I was there last week, and I’m going to pop, I tell you, I don’t know. What in the hell is happening with this old horse, Doc right here? I need to doctor him. And I was like, where in the hell on that come from?

 

Rick Jordan  

I only asked because, I mean, when you do media and stuff, it’s like a lot of people cannot. People cannot tell they are from Chicago, because I worked very hard hearing my family talk that way, you know, like, extended film, it’s like, yeah, we’re up from Chicago, you know. We’re gonna go go around, and we’re gonna get some hot dogs out of Portillo’s, you know. And it’s like, nasally and everything. It’s like, I like, I will not sound like that when I’m on TV.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

I love it. I have an uncle from there. You Midwesterner, salt of the earth.

 

Rick Jordan  

Oh my gosh, that phrase—yes, yes, you’re right, yes. So, so that’s the ranch.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Back to the ranch, right? They, I realized, were mission-driven people who weren’t connected in major media didn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of getting out in front of the world. So I thought, well, what’s that all saying? If not me? Who? If not now, when I gathered together a few of these TV producers and journalists that I had met over the years and getting my own message out, and asked them to help me rally around others, business owners, established experts who got a mission on their heart, a way that they want to change the world for the better, so we could help them gain a voice. Yeah, and so that those people who do want to share their story, their message, and their passion with millions actually can. Can I look at it absolutely like my sacred duty now? And I tell you every time one of these people gets out there and they’re on the Today Show, or Good Morning America, or 60 Minutes. Or something like this, I tell you, everything that I went through is 100% worth it. It’s like it solidifies that every time I love what I do, can you tell.

 

Rick Jordan  

Don’t make me cry, please. It’s only been a couple of shows. I try to keep my streak low, but it’s, it’s meaningful, because when you’re in those moments, you know, and I can tell you, I felt one of the same things when I was in the White House, when I was in the West Wing and consulting on, you know, AI border security, and it was literally for human trafficking, you know? And I’m sitting there, I’m about to walk into the Secretary of War Room, and it’s like, “I’ve got to keep it together here, because it’s like, it’s real, and I’m doing exactly what I was put on this earth for.” And there are moments that I think that, you know, because it’s Cheryl, people look like us look at us, and it’s like, wow, they’re, they’re really doing it right.” That’s like, what? What can I do? And in those moments, it’s like, well, you you do what you’re supposed to, you do what you were meant to do, you know, because it’s you and I are we empower people, yes, in every possible way, and it’s I love what you’re doing because you’re, you’re able to be a model for so many that want to have a voice, especially women that want to have a voice that feel like they haven’t been able to but then you’re out there and you’re like, see, we actually can. We can because I am. It’s so, so freaking inspiring because everyone who thinks that they can’t speak up because whoever it is is going to say something, or whoever it is is just going to smack them, or whatever—both of those happen in this world, right? And who cares? You know, even if you get smacked, even if somebody says something, you know, there are going to be those that are around. And I hear this all the time, you know, and maybe I’m on a little bit of a heartfelt rant because you pulled this out of me. It’s so crucial that those who have something to say, and even more so those who are meant to have something to say, actually get out there and speak it

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Absolutely! I mean, if you look at the state of the world today, what couldn’t we solve through the right people who’ve got true solutions and who solve big problems having a voice, a platform, an audience, and a reach of millions? It’s just, it’s staggering. I’ve got this client named John Michael Lander, and he’s a former platform diver, gold medalist, was Olympic bound as a boy, and was trafficked, groomed by his coaches. You know, all those scandals, and he stayed silent and he never shared his story. He tried originally, but people either blamed him or said he was at fault or didn’t believe him. And when he came to us, he said, “Do you know how many times I’ve tried to sell or give away these gold medals because they’ve represented nothing but pain for me, because no one has ever believed me?” Do you know he’s now been on everything from 60 minutes to George Clooney’s new documentary about Ohio, the Ohio State scandal? He, last year, addressed Congress, and he’s been brought in now to law enforcement agencies around the nation and universities and all of these places where he is helping to educate those in power on what trafficking and grooming look like, and to have this man now have such a platform and not just be believed but be sought after for his expertise is just, it’s just such a dream come true. 

 

Rick Jordan  

For sure, there’s a lot, like, I don’t know what it was with him. Maybe he had to wait for the invitation or whatever. But what you’re doing is awesome, because you’re actually just showing us, like you don’t even have to wait for that. You know, you don’t have to wait for the invitation. It’s like, I’m just showing you. It’s like there’s a microphone, or a metaphorical microphone, over there. Maybe it starts with just this small group that you’re a part of, whatever it is, but there are other ways. And then, Geez, you’re able to just show them. Hey, here is the wide world. Here’s the expansive world and all the microphones that are possible for you to be in front of, to tell your story and to influence others.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Right? And there’s you. You talked earlier about those dreams that are deep within us. Oftentimes lately, you know, I remember as a girl, right? We think we can’t have them. And I remember as a girl, we were truly in the flyover zone here in the most remote part of Colorado, where in any direction I’d look out and there’d be no signs of current-day civilization. It. It could have been 100 years ago or 200 years ago, except we had planes that flew overhead. And I would lie there among the cows and the cow patties and in the meadows and just look up and think, “Oh, if I stared hard enough at that plane, I might be the girl I might like, get sucked up in it, and be the girl looking at the girl down on the ground in the cow patties.” How could I get up in that plane, other than just staring at it and imagining that? Well, I’d have to be going places. I’d have to be doing things for people and helping them somehow. And that was my big dream, to help people. But I thought, you know, I know how to ride horses well, but I’m certainly not the best at it. What else could I possibly teach people? How else could I possibly serve them or help them? And sure enough, if the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Life handed me the kidnapping, and I was like, “Well, this isn’t what I want to talk about, but it’s what’s here,” and I did learn to overcome it and help a lot of other people overcome it. Well, what the hell? Maybe that is what I’m supposed to share. And in the gorgeous way this beautiful, benevolent universe works, I fulfilled the dream of that little girl lying among the cows in the meadow. I got to and get to help amazing people. Yeah, as just a cowgirl, like, what do I know? You know, I just went through the open door.

 

Rick Jordan  

I think we need to find some footage of you from that point in your life. You probably have it. But you know, as you are, I know because of what you’re saying, it’s like, you know you’re, yeah, you’re just a cowgirl. I use the same thing. It’s like, yeah, I was just a broke dude with two newborn twins when I started in the business, you know, like, literally no dollars whatsoever. It’s the relatability, because when you say things like that, it’s like, absolutely true. So if you’re listening, just envision that, right? Envision Cheryl just on the ranch, right? That’s it, like, just there. And I don’t know, maybe we could give the cow a name you’re there with, or with Bill. I don’t know why Bill comes to my mind, but Bill the cow is okay with everything that’s there and just understands that it’s like this. Oh man, because you’ve been with Dr Phil, Dr. Oz, and all these people, right? And there’s one thing, like, even with Tony Robbins, I’ll talk about him here and there, because I love the dude and what he does, because he impacts a lot of people too. There’s one thing he says, like, life is happening for you, not to you, and, you know? And I love that, and I get where he’s going, you know. But then I see and I talk and I meet with people like you, and it’s like that one thing you said a while back. It’s like you didn’t cause that, right? But what your responsibility and ownership was everything after that. So in that moment, something did happen to you. Yeah, that’s not the lesson that even Tony is trying to say. It’s like, you know that actually, even though it happened to you, it still happened for you, amen, because now there are so many other people that you can impact, you know. And it sucks. Oh, man, I get it, because I mean, traumas that people go through, you know, the thing I really back to all the time is my dad passing when I was 16, you know. And it’s just there’s stuff that I think everybody goes through, but the strongest people, and the ones with the biggest message, are the ones that go through the most adversity, just like you. And there’s got to be something, because there are so many people that don’t talk about this stuff, that don’t give it a name, they don’t have that cockroach in the name. What can you tell them to encourage them to be able to step up? You know, what? Where’s the starting point? You know, how did you get invited onto a film set for the first time? You know, does it? Because I think you said it was a film set the very first time that you, that you told your story. How did that transpire? You know, because not everybody’s a film set. But where do you start to deliver that message?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Well, gosh, I’ve heard this quote. My grandma used to just love the Lord and everything, all roads led to back to him, right? And she’d say, Well, if the Lord put it in your heart, he’s given you a way to fulfill it.” And I would think, Yeah, but how?” Do you leave instructions at all? Nana?

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s like parenting. There are books,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

You know, there’s, I really do think that’s the first place to recognize. If you’ve got something on your heart that you want to give away, some way you want to serve or make a difference with people there are you have got within you what it takes to fulfill it.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s a commonality too, isn’t it, with people who have had those severe traumas, it’s like all. It’s almost a natural thing that I’ve found, like with you, with me, and with everybody I’ve spoken to. It’s like something really bad happens to you, and all you want to do is help other people. It’s actually a healing mechanism for you. You have to do it.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Precisely. And it’s, I think there’s really something about that thing, about embracing what life has handed you. Because, look, it could go two different ways. Right? We know what life is like when we fight that which has happened. It’s a miserable existence. And I finally thought, and I can’t claim ownership of this. I stand on the shoulders of giants. I learned from these brilliant people at these elder care facilities, and I learned that the moment we say yes to that which is on our path, it reveals its gifts to us. These are the gifts that are locked tightly inside of it before that moment, but the moment we say yes, it reveals those things to us. And then I think that actually links back to what my grandmother said about if you’ve got a dream, you’ve got within you what it takes to fulfill it. And I think it’s yes within us, but the way that we partner with God, the universe, or whatever you believe, is this thing happens, I say yes to it, and then whatever life hands me next reveals the next step. Look, I’m not saying you have to if you want to share a message with the world. You got to waste a dang decade like I did. There are ways now to do it. I mean, I could help with that. That’s one of the things we do. But if you just keep going through that proverbial open door that reveals itself on your path. I think life provides for us what we need when we just say yes to what’s there rather than fighting what’s there. It’s not always easy, right? I didn’t have any idea how to survive. The thing that was kind of crazy to me, Rick, was I was physically held captive, and then they let me go for God only knows what reason, and then chased me later, but that’s another point. But then there I was, free, and I’m like, I should feel so happy. This is what I fantasized about the whole time being free. But why do I feel more captive now than ever? I didn’t know how to deal with that. The last thing that I wanted to do was go, Yes, I love you. Captivity of the mind, mindfuckness. But when I fought it, I stayed captive. And when I finally asked, “What do you have for me?” What are you trying to teach me? Yes, yes to whatever that is. Then it revealed the profundity of the gift that would have stayed locked forever as long as I stayed pissed off by it and vexed by it and victimized by it, like that shouldn’t have happened. It should be a safer world, or what have you, whatever I was saying.

 

Rick Jordan  

That emotion as you get pissed off at it—that is natural, isn’t it? Just part of grief. Do you think that’s what you were going through at that time?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

It’s definitely an uptick, so to speak, from victimhood, right? There’s this brilliant author whose name I’m not recalling, power versus force, David, I can’t think of his name. 

 

Rick Jordan  

What we’re talking about is progress right outside of victimhood. It is a step in the right direction.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Yes, from victimhood and hopelessness, but it’s, it’s not the stopping point. And for many of us, we can get stuck there in the anger and the sort of thoughts of retaliation, but it just doesn’t, it doesn’t yield any fruit. Ultimately, it’s a good step on the ladder. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I’d rather it be a chuckle a little bit. It’s like, I’d rather see somebody who’s gone through something really, really pissed off. It’s like, “Oh, good.” You’re ready to make a move now. You’re ready to do something about it. That’s all; feel it and be pissed off. You know, at least you’re not sitting there in a corner anymore. It’s like, I understand. Dan, it’s like, but the whole world’s out here for you, and people want to hear that you’re angry, and when people want to hear that you’re angry, that means that there’s actually a voice that you have because people want to listen to you.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Yes, I mean, anger can be; it’s one of the things we talk to our clients about. Generally, it’s not a galvanizing force unless you are rallying against injustice, in which case, anger is a galvanizing force. Otherwise, you know, conversations about what’s possible are more galvanizing, but definitely, when there’s an injustice, it has a purpose. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, right on. Wow! This has been amazing so that we’ve gone through a lot of those, a lot of the periods when you were healing, getting on major media, you know, we can leave everybody because I’ve gotten this, like, I remember the last company that I acquired, you know, because they’re like, “Oh, you’re on TV.” It’s like, how do you get on TV? I want to be on TV. I want to do this, you know. And it’s cool, because it was just somebody who was, like, maybe a structured cabling technician, like, pulling wires, you know, as part of the company. And he’s like, “I want to do that.” I want to get him, like, awesome. That’s where it starts. It’s like, exactly what you’re talking about, Cheryl. It’s like there’s something that’s there. I don’t know what his message is. I have no idea. But hearing that, like, how did you get started in that?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Well, I was writing network TV, and I, like I said, could see the difference it made. And so I just thought, “Okay, I’m going to become one of those people.” And I’m not kidding when I say it took me a decade. I started trying to pitch, and there are so many ways to do it wrong. I had no idea. Yeah, I’m with you. I burned bridges early on by thinking I was doing the right thing by not trying like I was trying. I went out to reach out to somebody at Good Morning America, and I just didn’t know any better. I got an introduction to a producer at Good Morning America. That was mistake number one, until you’ve got talking points and sound bites and you’ve already been on major media, you’ve got no business being introduced to a gatekeeper. But I didn’t know that, and so I went full steam ahead and met her and turned her off instantly.

 

Rick Jordan  

They have to see that you’re a reliable guest, right? That you’re going to show up like that. That’s the previous experience. Yeah. I mean, there’s some stuff that gets thrown on Good Morning America first, but you’re talking, you know, like the, like the Harlem Globetrotters, the Boy Scouts of America, like the best troop in America. They’ll get a quick, a quick segment on there, but that’s not something like we’re talking about.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Except for their expertise. Oh, God, I burned more bridges. I think that’s probably why it took so long. I would, well-intentioned, reach out to gatekeepers and say something like, “How would you like to use me? Here’s what I do. And talk just about me, the me, me, me show for a while, and they’d be like, “Block spam,” and I would never hear from them again. But you know, it was trial and error for a very long time. And there’s a way to there’s a way to tie what you do to what’s happening in the world in such a way that makes major media want to cover it, but then when you get there, you’ve got to deliver the segment in a way that not only discusses what’s happening in major media in the current news cycles but also serves their audience in a market-specific way, and I just didn’t; I didn’t get that part of the game. And so each time I would fail or not get invited on or burn a bridge unwittingly, I would write it down and vow to do it differently the following time. And it took so much trial and error for anyone to do that, but say it again,

 

Rick Jordan  

Did some actually give you feedback on your pitches?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Oh, I can’t. I don’t think so. I mean, I’m sure maybe once it happened in there.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I didn’t think so. The way, the way I was hearing you was more so it’s like, “Yeah, I would vow to change a dime.” Like, did they actually tell you? I’ve never experienced that. Who are these producers you spoke to?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

That’s not a thing. I just had to; I had to break it down and go, “Why is this failing?” And I could see, like, I looked at and studied television and magazines and newspapers and radio and what is working. I became such a student and realized, well, I was pitching a segment like X when they actually do segments like Y on that network. No wonder. So now I’ve been blacklisted. There. Hmm, how can I do it differently moving forward? Because, no, they don’t tell you,

 

Rick Jordan  

No, not at all. That’s good research to do ahead of time too. It’s always timely. Hooks, local, hooks and local even, it doesn’t even necessarily mean around their specific geographical area, but it’s what you’re talking about. Like local internally to their own network. How do they do this? Usually, what do they like? What do they enjoy? To cover? You know, just like the Bob Sellers example I gave you as a callback here to what we were talking about earlier, it’s like they wanted me to, like, be hardcore Republican and go after big tech. And it’s like you brought me on here, but I’ll be divisive, and that serves the audience. Exactly what you were saying was, yeah, I laughed at the guy.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

And as they say on TV, conflict is king. Conflict is ratings, and generally, the problem with that is what they’ll do is throw these guest experts on the sword, like, like you’re just saying, make you the one who is the one that that the conflict is at your expense, because generally, a new person has no idea how to spin out of that, how to both answer the question, serve the audience, and get invited back again, wow, simultaneously edifying yourself. It’s not easy.

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s not easy. It is fun when you learn how to do it. It’s a lot of fun when you learn how to do it. It’s a rush. Actually,

 

Cheryl Hunter  

It truly is, right? Yep, it’s a privilege. 

 

Rick Jordan  

It is, absolutely! Cheryl, I appreciate you. There’s so much more that we can dive into on your story, but I think anybody who has a message needs to contact you. Where’s the best place to get in touch with you?

 

Cheryl Hunter  

cherylhunter.com is my website. We’ve got everything listed there. 

 

Rick Jordan  

The great site. I love it. I was on it earlier. Check it out for real. If you’re, if you’re if you have a message, or this is what I’m gonna tell you to do, go to Cheryl’s website if you have a message. Or you’ve ever thought it’s like, oh, it’d be fun to be on TV. That’s great. There’s a lot of work and effort that goes into it to get to the point where you’ll be that reliable guest. Take a look at Cheryl’s appearances on our media page. You know, a lot, a lot of what’s there. It’s brilliant. It’s awesome. I’m watching you, Cheryl, and I see you, and I’m like, “Oh, I could do that too.” That’s a lot of fun.

 

Cheryl Hunter  

Thank you. You know, yes, I mean, my media appearances are great. Thank you. And I, what I’m most proud of is our clients and what they’re able to do; several of them have things like new inventions. I’ve got a client, Dr Michael Hutchinson. He’s a dentist, and he invented a mouth guard to stop concussions because he wanted his own son, who was playing contact sports, to be safe. And now he’s meeting with big generals of the US Army to give them to all enlisted men and women. And it’s like, wait, what? Imagine preventing concussion in our armed forces. And now he’s doing it with big pro sports leagues. And, I mean, this is a guy who people—when he first started talking about this mouth guard, he was like, Oh, but it goes on the bottom.” They’re like, “Have you not seen the NFL mouth guards go on the top guy?” Don’t you know anything? And everyone’s trying to prove him wrong. And he’s like, “No, this actually works.” And he just couldn’t get his message out there. And it’s, it’s so inspiring to see someone like that who’s got a true solution for people being able to get the year of the world. So, yes, by all means, look, look at those people’s videos. That’s the real inspiring thing.

 

Rick Jordan  

What you do for them is also inspiring. I appreciate your humility, but, uh, you are the person that was sent to their lives, you know. And there’s, there’s nothing wrong with taking ownership of that either, because that is taking ownership of your message. You know, I didn’t mean this to turn into coaching, but absolutely, because I once had a Navy Seal, a retired Navy Seal, who was one of my coaches. And one of the things he told me, because I held back on saying something, is, “Like, it sounds like you want to say something. Is it about yourself?” And I’m like, “Well, yeah, but I don’t want to sound arrogant, like, ‘Well, is it true?'” I said, “Well, yeah, it’s true.” And he goes, well, then it’s just fact, and it’s up to the people on the other end to receive it. How they’re going to receive it. It’s not on you. So if you speak facts about something good about yourself, can help inspire other people and deliver the message so you can show up for them perfectly. Okay. He helped me get over this, like, false humility, this oppression from when I was a kid, like in just that one statement. So by all means, yes, you are the person who was sent to all of your client lives, to Cheryl; that’s who you are. Thank you. You bet. Thanks for coming on this; I’ve enjoyed our conversation, yep.