About the Episode
January is National Slavery and Human Traffcking Prevention month, but how much do you really understand about it?
Listen to expert Cammy Bowker talk about the dangers for our children online and how easy it is for a predator to approach children on social media and in the gaming chat world.
About the Guest
Cammy Bowker is the founder of Global Education Philanthropists. With a degree from University of Washington and Stanford with emphasis on education, Global E.P. was designed to provide business owners and community members ways to find hands-on philanthropic opportunities that support educating communities for long term empowerment.The world class non profit organization, Global Education Philanthropists (Global E.P.) strategically fights human trafficking through education on a global scale.
Global Education Philanthropists has a for profit international partner as well, founded by Cammy- Expedition Global. Volunteers register to travel with Expedition Global, to various world wide locations. Travelers who attend an Expedition Global humanitarian aid excursion, directly serve in orphanages, aftercare centers, medical clinics, schools and universities in villages world- wide, empowering communities through education on self-reliance and small business principles.
Listen to the podcast here
Watch the episode here
The President United States has dedicated the month of January towards raising awareness around the different forms of human trafficking and that’s what we’re talking about today because my guest has been on the show before and she’s amazing. She’s a freaking pitbull when it comes to this. This fight that we’re in and I can’t even think of the right words because I get all fired up. When we talk about this, You’ve seen me on different shows talk about this. It’s a passion of mine to protect our kids and everything and I have my friend Cammy Bowker today. Welcome back.
Hi, thanks for having me. Good to see you.
Yeah, good to see you too. You have so much going on, I mean, you are the CEO of a global education philanthropist right? I’m reading this because there’s a lot here. It’s awesome, obviously a public speaker and educator will share this but you’re fighting human trafficking again through education right because it doesn’t start or really stop with the rescue.
We have a common phrase that I say prevention beats rescue every time and the reason I said that is because I personally helped rescue hundreds of people and kids and it’s not done there. You know, you don’t just like you know, “Hey, good, I got you right out to Africa Center and you’re done now.” No, like, there’s a lifelong process that starts to happen for that person and so by the time the rescue happens for me, I’m like, yes, it’s I don’t really love the Word Rescue, by the way, but I feel like that’s egotistical. But we can get into that topic at some point. Anyways, I feel like that’s a bad word, but that’s okay. Like even survivors, it’s not about anyone that’s helping them. It’s about that person. But prevention, right?
I mean, if you can, they’ve shown that the prevention dollars are 30 times more powerful than the rescue than the aftercare than all of it. Imagine if everybody was listening to this right now, and you and I were able to do one thing, because we were empowered because we knew what was going on and we were all able to band together but just preventing it from happening to one kid wouldn’t be worth it, right? So we have to kind of get everyone’s egos out of the way like who rescue rescue rescue and prevention is going to beat it and we have to start looking out for our kids and then teaching our kids to look out for each other and maybe on today’s show, we’ll kind of talk about some tips of ways people can do that, and how they can help and things like that but yeah, I’m a retired school teacher and I truly believe that the only catalyst for long term change is education.
Yeah, for sure. I’m with you on that too. I mean, it’s the same in cybersecurity in anything, right? I mean, even with you know, I’m not really comparing these two things, but even when it comes to firearms in the US and all the different sides and perspectives of the Second Amendment, right? It’s always coming down to education with any industry that you’re a part of you know, or any scenario that can cause any fight that you’re in and this one is a big fight and I mentioned, you know, that the president of the United States ever since 2010. So that was during the Obama administration when January was now dedicated towards raising awareness around human trafficking, and you mentioned a bunch of different ways, but I would love to dive into this. I know you say it’s ego, but there’s probably a pretty good reason I’m thinking in your head why you don’t like the word rescue. Why is that, what really is that?
Personally, I don’t love word rescue because I’ve had to go into some of the darkest parts of the world I guess and how it’s just a weird term that survivors don’t love I don’t love it just kind of seems like “Oh, that is about the person that was somehow able to like maybe break in a door.” I you know, however, that scenario went, and it was about the person doing that act, and it takes it away from the real person that was in immediate danger or you know, it kind of just has this weird in this survivor world as a really weird connotation using the word rescue can actually be very fun. Sometimes I read for lack of better words I use the word rescue too but I don’t love it, but we all it’s a kind of a common ground we all use.
Well, yeah, no doubt and I had a hunch that’s where you were going with that too, because it almost takes the persona of a hero and gives that to the individuals that are diving in rather than taking the focus off the individual that has been in that for so long and I’m sure there’s many different reasons
Here in San Diego going into these crazy places, right? With some other females that knew what they were doing and helped to get girls out of these situations and we talked a lot about this word rescue and that’s where I first got this paradigm shift and it’s only because of the street experience that I saw and the last thing I wanted was anyone to know that that’s what was going on. I just wanted to help this girl be her right out to a safe place and let’s keep you safe, and that was it had nothing to do with me or the other people that were with us. It was about that victim and even the word victim, you know, you could just go on and on with the words but rescue can be a stinger but really at the end of the day, as we talked about, okay, how can we prevent it? It’s going to be, it’s a global problem. It’s going to take a global solution. When we start talking about how people get out of trafficking. Let’s change it to how can we stop them getting it in the first place? How can we slow this down, because it’s the fastest growing crime in the world, right? It’s so easy now.,
I mean, most of our listeners are literally listening to this but if you go on YouTube and check out Cammy, I mean she’s just a freaking beautiful woman, right? She used to be a school teacher. I know she talked about how you should go back and listen to the previous episode. She was on to it when she talked about rescue. Cammy is one of the ones where it boots on the ground. Like to stand going in this weird place as I know this because I know that I will be carrying a rifle wearing a bulletproof vest and a sidearm. You know, literally going to provide the escape route for, that’s a better phrase, isn’t it right? You’re forging the path to provide the escape for that. Individuals and allow them the freedom that they so deserve. I mean, I look at you now and it’s like, it’s hard to imagine I’ve seen you in the other way. I’ve seen photos of you. We’ve been on the phone when you’ve been in the middle of an operation. Yeah, it’s such a dichotomy, right because I mean, you’re ready to throw down and at the same time, you’re ready to just speak and use the power of words to help make an impact. It’s incredible.
Because once you see it one time you go “Gosh, how can we slow this down from happening to anyone else?” It’s gonna take people to start having difficult conversations. People think that human trafficking is something that happens in this faraway place and I’m here to tell you that it’s not necessarily always in a faraway place and I’m not trying to be like this, like doomsday guests that you’ve ever had. But I’m here to tell you that it’s you know, it’s online. Think about what everything changed when COVID hit right that changed the way that we buy our groceries, our clothes, everything shows up and the same things for human trafficking. So there’s a whole digital piece that unfortunately, we just don’t know what’s happening and so we have to have conversations about what is the root problem of this issue. Like why is this happening?
Well, the root problem is pornography and so we start have to start having conversations with our kids about pornography. Your kids are seeing it. So if you’re listening to this, you have a kid or a grandkid, or a niece or nephew younger or older than six years old. They have seen pornography. So you can’t say my husband, my wife, my brother, they don’t. It comes looking for them. Like we were just talking before we started the show about the algorithms and things and so these type of images are now in our children’s brains as our brains as your children’s brains are formulating like that they’re trying to grow and learn and they’re getting pummeled with pornography and so we need to get rid of shame around pornography and say, “Hey, let’s talk about it.” Just like you mentioned earlier as a firearm. A firearm is only scary if you’re not educated about it. Just like pornography just like human trafficking. So once you have education about okay, it’s rooted in pornography.
So I look at it as like a tree right the root of the problem is pornography. and it’s manifesting itself around the globe as the leaves in the tree and all of it is human trafficking is a global mess we have, but the deep root is pornography so and people can access that on their phones and now on their games and on any game that you want and if you wanted to trick a kid you just go to the game that they’re playing and start pretending you’re one of them and you and I’ve talked about how much data can be drawn from someone and the listeners might not know that all we might be going to touch on that but really, what it boils down to is let’s start having a safeguard in our own homes, in our own communities and having crucial conversations.
There’s a phrase that I’ve used before that I’ve said I haven’t said in a long time, but I’ve always felt as a parent myself in raising my kids, you know, because I have twins boy and a girl and then I have a younger one who’s going to be 12 I mean, they’re old now they’re going to be like 15 but I know it’s it’s crazy, but that’s that’s my oldest son and my daughter are going to be 15 coming in June. The phrase is if they’re old enough to ask the questions, they’re old enough to know the answers and I feel like a lot of things like porn or anything I mean sex, whatever is always swept under the rug. It’s like in this phrase that I recall even from my childhood, “Oh, we’ll tell you when you’re older.” You know when I would ask you like, Well, wait a second, you know, and I think back to when I was six or seven. It’s like if I’m asking the question, you know, there’s I’m obviously thinking about it. So don’t don’t shrug me off and I’ve never done that with my kids.
You definitely haven’t. I know that about you. But this is something to think about. In that same format. For some reason. We have this conception, I say we are like a human race, not putting it out but we have this conception of if we don’t talk about it, our kids are gonna be okay. Don’t talk about pornography. They’re gonna be okay. Don’t talk about sex and they’re gonna be okay. No, how about just don’t talk about guns and then you know, the kids aren’t educated by it. They’re the ones that are people. They’re the ones that are sometimes injured but once you’re educated, then you know what to do. We have to have no judgment, we have to talk to the kids about pornography because I do school assemblies and stuff. I still just can’t quite get out of the schools. I love them so much and I talk to teenagers and I’m like, I know you send nudes. I know you see porn every day and it goes like this. “Hey, here’s a teacher. She doesn’t know, like, oh crap, like, yeah, she does.” So parents need to understand, like just the case I called you on in Phoenix. It was like, What do I do? Can you help me tie these together? That case was one where it was like, we knew who had this girl and so I made a fake Snapchat and it was I said hi to him. He said hi back to me, sent me a nude, and I realized that’s our kids normal day to any stranger, hiend me nudes and that is something that parents unfortunately it’s not comfortable to think about. It’s not easy sometimes.
It’s that quick too, exactly. “Hi, hi, send me nudes. It’s the third frickin message.
Within less than a minute, right? Yeah. So we have to get rid of the like, oh my gosh, you pointing fingers pointing fingers and then take accountability about being a responsible parent and saying, “Hey, you might get mad at me if I asked you this but also if you get yourself in a situation please know me and your dad or whoever your co parenting or whatever, can handle a conversation if you’ve already gone down this path.” Because so many times we see kids go down the path of sending the nude and then regretting it and then feeling trapped and traffickers will, you know, blackmail them with that photo. I’m going to show your parents I’m going to show everyone so do more, do more, do more.
They’re never going to show your parents always telling teenagers that no adult male or female is gonna want to tell the world how to picture a 13 year old naked boy or girl on my phone. But at the moment, kids don’t understand because they’re too scared to tell their parents. So these instances can happen on any game or any social media outlet that we have that has a chat feature. So we have to start understanding, okay, our kids are seeing things. They need to understand that they can come to you if they seem to be in danger, and they don’t want to talk to you.
Yeah, for sure and the conversation is so crucial in order to provide this is what I was talking about when I was on Newsmax a couple weeks ago with Bob Sellars, when he was going hard he’s like, Well, what about big tech and what about the algorithm and stuff like that? I laughed at him like, dude, what about responsible parenting? You know, don’t you think that that comes into play in some places, you know, having those conversations allowing your kids to feel open to where they won’t feel judged? about bringing these very sensitive topics to you as a parent, you know that that’s something that we need to foster again, within our households because, again, if it’s porn or sex or anything else, and you’re saying, “I’ll tell you when you’re older,” that doesn’t help them in any way whatsoever. It compounds the problem because they’re already talking about it. They’re already talking about it with everybody else, but you.
That’s right, they’re already getting it. They’re already seeing it but you’re just someone they can’t talk to. Unfortunately, like, you know, you look at the send me nude scenario, okay, let’s imagine back in my days, what I’m saying is like our kids, what they are raising right now is so crazy compared to some of us, so they’re right when they say to us parents, you don’t know what you’re talking about. In many instances, they’re right, because I’m 40 something. I’ll just leave it at that.
Cammy’s really 33.
When I was a kid, I mean, imagine the absolute asinine question of sending me a nude. You’d have to get this thing called a 35 millimeter camera. You’d have to snap the thing, maybe 100 pictures of it, send it to a photo booth guy, which they probably wouldn’t ever develop, then you’d have to put a stamp on it. You’d never get it to a boy that’d be ridiculous.
It’s like every conversation is over sexualized. people’s profiles are over sexualized. Everything is diluted as far as any sort of sacredness and an intimate relationship like, I think that does fall. Back on the responsible parent piece. We can’t hand them an iPhone or an Xbox and it’s like good luck to them, right. So it’d be like handing them keystone Maserati I’m authorized. Awesome. He does really cool stuff. But if you give the keys or and say here, I’m going to take off I’m going to go to the store. I got this Maserati in the garage. “Here’s keys don’t turn it on.” They’re gonna go and start pushing buttons. Then they’re gonna drive it through the front door or the front garage or whatever.
That’s the same thing with an iPhone is we give them an iPhone with no instructions. And we hope that they’re not going to have a disaster happen. Of course, they’re gonna have a disaster happen. We have to talk to them and so it’s our job as parents to do more.
How do we still promote healthy sexuality?
I think it goes back to the responsible parenting you were saying, right. I don’t think we should shame others.. Like we have kids that are we have transgender with all of these things going on and really the world like I said that they’re growing up with they’re looking at sexual images, having sexual conversations at such a different age than we ever did. We were just looking at a study of an eight year old boy that was addicted to pornography, right, and then there was another case in the states where these little boys stoned a girl to death because she was six, she wouldn’t do what they saw in a pornographic video.
It’s shocking that these young children are faced with such aggressive sexual images that their brain can’t comprehend it. So I just think it goes back to responsible parenting conversations. Okay, we’re safe. You know, you’re you know, I’m safe to talk to your mom say to talk to you know, what, what are you seeing out there? Like, did you send a nude when’s the last time you saw a nude? Like, not make a big deal out of it? It’s just like a gun. Like, take it apart, put it back together. Like let’s talk about it. So I also feel like it’s not the schools or the churches or someone else’s job to talk about sexuality with your kids. That’s the responsible parenting piece. So that’s a piece for parents to talk to their own kids about and I understand different families, like, you know, might have different dynamics, but as far as in my family, what we would do is that’s that’s up to me. To talk to my kids about what I feel is right and wrong, and that they can talk to me, even if they’re theirs might not align with me.
Maybe they have questions about, you know, I just had my daughter in a different country, and she’d never heard some of these other terms like binary and different things that kids in that country were talking about that her age transgender things and she’s like, “Well, what does that mean?” So we were able to have some really good conversations and I think it has to come from, you know, let’s just talk about it. What are you seeing, and a place of love? So there’s just no judgement. Yeah, the kids are seeing pornography. They’re scared. Their brain does weird things, their body does weird things. Our bodies are designed to respond to these images in a certain context, at a certain time and it’s like, to me it’s a sacred place, right? But they’re getting exposed to these images that their brain can’t understand and so they feel scared and then they’re like, “Who do I tell?” Then the addiction becomes more and so I talk to the kids constantly like you’re the person that you are when there’s no one around you to pull your phone out when you’re alone?
Yeah, right on that’s why I knew you’re gonna go there and I wasn’t looking at you like you were crazy because it was you’re talking because that I agree with you about the photos on social media and all of that, because it’s the same principle as what we were talking with the conversations, your kids are still going to see it everywhere else, you know, but they’re gonna see that you have a higher standard and it’s also when they feel comfortable to bring those topics you say, “Hey, I saw this today mom, I saw this today, dad,” you know, to encourage them and say “Hey, how’d you feel when when you saw that?” “You know, well, you know, I kind of felt good, right?” I’m like, awesome. You’re supposed to feel good. You’re exactly. When you see these things. This is how humans are, you know this sexuality. is part of our core beings.
As humans, you know, to be able to interact that way with other people. You’re supposed to feel this way. When you see these things and let me tell you the context of these, you know, and then we will get into video games. I want to hear about your documentary and everything too, in a bit but this part about responsible parenting, you know, that’s where I was asking like, where do you feel like healthy sexuality is? What I’m describing, I feel is what healthy sexuality is encouraging your kids to say that it’s good to feel that way. You know that this is how you’re meant to be and here’s the context as your parents because when they feel comfortable talking to you about it, it’s your job as the parent to instill the values in your kids that you want them to have.
So whatever that is, whatever your values are, it’s your job to instill those within them and not to shame them for feeling the way that they’re feeling when you haven’t even expressed to them what your values are yet. Yeah, that’s, that’s common sense. You know, if you’re abdicating your responsibility of instilling your values into your kids that you want them to have to go to school or church to anybody else, you suck as a parent. I’m just going to give you the straight truth. Okay, it is your job to instill the values into your kids that you want them to have, not anybody else.
If they feel like they can come talk to you, if they’re like, my values don’t match, like we have people that are coming, you know, a lot of survivors, I think, have some stories as you’re talking. They tell them to their parents and say, “You know what, I think I’m gay.” Their parents are like, get out of the house and then they’re stuck on the streets. Yeah. So we also have to kind of feather the petals and go, Okay, these are our values, and I can be here to talk to you, but make a relationship and respectful thing. So they knew a respectful relationship, so that they knew if something went off of your values, they could still come and talk to you because that’s going to scare them. They’re not going to know what to do but time and time again. You see so many times where people end up homeless or something over a value issue in their home and then end up in traffic.
So what we just need to do is it’s up to us parents, and if you have a niece or nephew and you know their parents should be that person for them. If you don’t have kids, like we can be better as men and women, we can be better. I mean, we can get anything from talking to your kids tonight and asking them when’s the last time you sent a nude? You’re gonna they’re gonna think you’re crazy. When’s the last time you were sent a nude? You know, all of your kids’ Instagram inboxes and TikTok are full of naked boys and girls saying “Hey, click on this picture. I love you.” Algorithm guy that’s not a person. It’s a fake picture. There’s even like, so many ways that that could totally be a computer, am I right, Rick? It’s not a person so I do. Okay, boys, you think you’re like I’m so cool. This lady’s bikini messaged me.
No, it’s a robot. It’s not a person whatsoever. Like so you could you just could get your brain to be wrapped around the fact that kay, boys Instagrams, the algorithm, it’s a computer it’s a robot sending you pictures of other computers just to see who’s gonna bite because wait online there’s money to be made simple. Okay, look at it from a marketing perspective. Easy. So just talk to your kids about when’s the last time you saw a naked person like what today? When did you today I promise you they did today. If you give your kids your phone and don’t talk to them about things and conversations on their video games and things but we can’t shame them and go, my husband’s never seen anybody else in there. No, they have their own thing. Let’s talk about it, whatever move on, like, we can still be adults here. But this is not talking about a thing. It’s just like, it’s absolute madness. We’ve got to open up the conversations and so we’re gonna work hard to do that. Because I know actually, if some of these victims I’ve seen had a safe place to go or someone in their life that they knew they mattered they could talk to they wouldn’t have ended up in this scenario that they ended up in.
Yeah, bingo. Now one way you’re doing this is you’re making a documentary right now to one way you’re getting the word out there. Tell me about this. You’re in Belize right now, right?
Yeah. Yeah. So I’m in Belize at the moment trying to work and have a little bit of a holiday break. But I don’t like to just have a break like to go work in orphanages and aftercare centers and stuff. So I’ve been in this human trafficking fight for about five years and I realize I’m an educator, you know, I went to university, Washington and Stanford. I did some work in Stanford studying how kids’ brains learn and then it was able to help kids learn math better. I used to hate math but it dawned on me when I was doing some human trafficking work. Wait a minute, hold on. Kids that keep getting in these patterns. They just don’t know that they’re a target and it was a few years back. We were working with an organization that rescues kids like by the hundreds in Asia, and they pull up in these fields where the kids are actual slaves, and they get them out and in that culture, they still have to actually still work as a kid, but they get them to healthier scenarios where they get school and things and it dawned on me that this little boy like he was with his family one morning and then the next day he was out there working he was four years old. I’m like, what in the hell like he didn’t know he was a target until it was too late.
Same thing with the you know a couple of other cases that talk to you about they don’t know their target till it’s too late. You know what we need to do, we need to help the kids in the world know that they are on this battlefield and they’re just marching along. They have no way to defend themselves. They have no armor and they have no weapons at all and they have this giant target on their back saying I’m worth a million dollars because by the time they can get traffic for organs it’s crazy. A trafficker can make a million bucks on a person.
So I realized we’ve got to let these cute kids know the sweet kids in the world that are just trying to grow up and be kids. Nobody’s defending them. Like we need to be better. How can we defend them? How about this, I’m just going to be a little bit better in my interactions online as a mom, I’m gonna let my husband know “Hey, if you’re seeing porn, like I’m not gonna judge you, but can we talk about it?” Like, let’s get rid of all this judgment stuff and start defending our kids and really banding together and so I went on a deep research project and pulled together a really amazing team. I have a BBC correspondent from China, who actually put on the Wuhan lab as my investigative journalist. I’ve hired her full time for the last year and a half just studying the digital forms of trafficking for our kids. It’s really cool.
Because I’ve been watching how it goes from Hey, send Me Nudes like oh my gosh, it’s happening on Fortnite, Roblox it started here starting at eight years old, six years old, and the teacher in me and the educator needs like everyone needs to know and then they can start looking out and if you and I know and you can start looking at your circle, then they can start looking out in their circle and so that’s what we’re doing. We’ll be filming some of it in Ireland, most of it in Ireland. So I now have a home in the states in Ireland and we’re pulling cases from around the world and just it’s not going to be by me it’s going to be by kids for kids because at the end of the day, if you know, I know I say open up these conversations, but I can’t I can guarantee you the answer you’re going to get from your kids is okay mom and dad, you know what you’re talking about, and we need from the brains you know, as a teacher, like if a kid tells another kid Hey, dude, like one plus ones two they’re like, What if a teacher tells them all day they won’t listen and so there’s this peer to peer situation and so this documentary is going to be from kids talking to other kids so they can actually understand it’s really happening.
We have kids saying, hey, yeah, I was trafficked on Roblox. I was trafficked on Snapchat. I was trafficked on Fortnite or, you know, Grand Theft Auto. I’m lucky still here to tell the tale like can we just be better? Can we start looking out for one another online? Like, if stuff looks weird, like when I talk to teenagers, they are like, yeah, that looks off. But I don’t want to say anything. We got to take care of those barricades too and go, you know what? I know it feels weird to talk to your friend like why are you posting these pictures? That seems weird. I want kids to start just having some ownership and being like, I’m gonna look out for each other like, Yo, what’s up? Are you good? Can I help you? Because right now everyone’s just kind of battling alone because they don’t know and so the documentary is also combined with a curriculum to go to schools and universities, and truly getting some information to parents’ hands and teachers’ hands all over the world and you’ll see it on mainstream media. But we can just once we know then we’re fine but when you don’t, it’s all scary like a gun but once you know, it’s not so bad.
Yeah, right on. What is your documentary release?
Well, we were already in pre production right now. Or they’ll be Yeah, we’re already in it. Took a little break for Christmas but I’ll be back in Ireland in January. So we’re already going and then we have eight weeks of pre production a week, 12 weeks of filming and then 20 weeks of editing and marketing and distribution.
Awesome. So like fall winter of 2022. That’s awesome.
You mean it depends who purchases it. I’m learning how film works. But we have the world’s highest documentarian of all time. On this project. We have just the most fun. So the nominal group and I just feel like God in the universe, whatever is pulled together. People are passionate about saving kids and we’re getting out of the way and we’re laying the kids help the kids because when we’re gone, they’re going to be there for each other still.
Yeah, that’s so awesome. You mentioned a couple things as you were going through that, you know, different areas that kids are, are trafficked on, you know, whether it’s social media, you know, Snapchat, I mean, this even happens on Facebook too, Instagram. But you mentioned a couple other games and I was just having a conversation with my oldest son the other day about Fortnite, and we were looking up some things and of course the New York Times did an article just it was about two years ago, and Fortnite was listening to Roblox which we know of already Minecraft, you know, a couple other games, and Fortnite was one of the ones that really kind of blew my mind a bit because that’s made by Epic Games and when the times reached out to these different game manufacturers, and you know, Minecraft is made by Microsoft, and Microsoft and some of the others responded to the New York Times and said, “Yes, this is what we’re doing and here’s our roadmap to put even more safeguards in place.” It was phenomenal, right? Freakin epid who makes Fortnite didn’t even reply to the times with an ad with an answer as far as what they’re currently doing or what they intend to do and just silence ignored them. Yeah, that was this article two years ago, I was like that.
So how do you feel about this? I don’t think that’s a very good thing, because they’re ignoring it. You know, they don’t care about the problem and then you look at the ways that they’re able to spend money there. It’s just a financial gain for them. They don’t care about the damage that’s being caused. There’s a good middle ground that someone like Microsoft would have with Minecraft, you know, and as you look more into that a lot of this happens. Yeah, they’re sending nudes but a lot of these things happen when they move over to voice chat. Seriously in these things, too and then it becomes “Hey, what’s your address? Where do you want to meet me?” Yeah, and that’s how things begin to escalate. What are some of the ways, what are some of the other areas you know, some other games because Roblox and Fortnite are the biggest ones. What are some others that you see, so that we can let parents know and also what can they do about this?
Well, this isn’t going to be a popular answer. But reaching the chat feature, every single game that’s online. I know that’s like the worst answer in the world but if you think about it, I’m going to go down the pedophile route. Okay, think about people that wake up with more sophisticated technology than law enforcement or people that wake up with an intent to get kids, okay. They’re going to go where kids are, whatever game your kids are playing with a chat feature. I have some friends that their kids have YouTube channels where there’s chat on YouTube, if there’s no platform that I know, I’m not trying to sound like totally negative, but truly, there’s no platform when a kid it has opened communication with the world that someone isn’t going to try to get at that child. Unfortunately, there are like kids messenger or different things where it truly is just closed and those I feel like are somewhat safe right?
Yeah, like messenger for kids from Facebook Messenger kids. Yeah. Literally
They can only message like you are their cousin and you can see it on your phone when it happens. Yeah, but any game they play online, it’s not just Fortnite, just robots. Those are just very popular games. But now as we head into like VR, and Metaverse, and things, it’s gonna get worse and again, I’m sorry to be Doomsday, but like we have to talk because anytime your kid can go online, and you have the whole world to talk to who they are, and in some regards, parents have done a great job, letting their kids know you’re safe and you’re okay. The kids don’t understand that truly. There could be someone on the other side of that screen that might not have the best intent and they’re so tricky and so smart that the kids are like, well, this is my friend for my class.
Well, that’s what you think but your mom’s posted your name, what you like to do, where you’re at what school you go to, and everything else and so now I can strike up a conversation with you and make a profile of other kids in your class and look like the kids in your class and you think why would they actually do this? There’s so much well with pedophilia that they want to get to the kid right? But there’s so much money to be made and so we just have to understand. There’s no like okay, if we just only use these or if we just only use that it has to come back to responsible parenting, talking to your kids, and letting them know you like you. I mean, a five year old needs only a five year old answer.
Like you said, if you’re old enough to ask the question, you get the answer, but a five year old needs a five year old answer. A 10 year old needs a 10 year old answer, but even your teenagers you’re probably not going to be popular but like you need to talk to them about things that they’re seeing and let them know hey, I get it. I get that I don’t understand. I understand that I don’t understand. Help me know, like, Can I help you? Because there’s no like, necessarily, if you use this unless it’s all fine, that someone’s not going to be able to be open to being a target
Yeah, what do some of those conversations look like? Because I know you see these all the time. That way parents can be aware and then they can educate their kids too if you start to be asked these types of questions. If you’re being asked these types of questions, this is something to look out for
So the conversation starts like this. Are you ready? Yeah. Hi. That’s all hot like that’s all it’s that simple. It can just be high in your DMS and Instagram. It could just be a hi on a game and it’s very harmless at first, right? So the conversations are what you would think would just be a regular person. That’s what’s kind of tricky about it. Is there it just would seem like another 10 year old or 15 year old and they just start getting comfortable talking to this person and they found it only takes 24 hours to joke that person is their friend and honestly, it takes only 72 hours for a kid. I mean, their parents are like, you know, on him doing things talking to them like they’re on like, making sure what they’re looking at is great. But these conversations can’t be. We can’t let up on the guest because the research shows it only takes 72 hours for a kid to agree to meet up with someone, even if their parents are like don’t talk to someone don’t meet up with one.
So it’s just kind of like the experiment when we were growing up. Don’t talk to the creepy guy in the van and then they, you know, chill the X. There’s lots of them. You can look it up of these guys doing college research projects on this. They have great parents, their parents you know, read your Bible, say your prayers, eat your vegetables, whatever you believe, whatever. But do your homework, and then they don’t talk to the guy at the park and then they set him in this scenario. That’s research, you know, scenario and this guy shows up with a puppy. The actual scenario is parents said “Don’t ever talk to someone asking to find your puppy.” The kid’s gonna van with the guy. So let’s say we do this. We talked to the kids and the conversation started as simple as “Hi, how are you?”
If it’s out there in this open, you know, internet, anybody can be doing that and saying those conversations, but what they will do is what I’ve personally seen as conversation is starting on one platform or one gaming system, and then moving off to a desert. You got it being Oh, as soon as they move off, but how does it start? Super simple. Oh, hey, why don’t we want to catch him on Facebook or WhatsApp or telegram or a signal and the conversation is moving and I’ve even seen questions asked in email and answered on Snapchat, asked on Facebook Messenger and answered on different platforms. So it gets kind of crazy and our kids are very brilliant. I believe kids are so smart and so yeah, they’re so smart. So that’s kind of how it starts but how it finishes is all over as soon as they move off to a different platform. Don’t you agree?
Yeah, right on and those platforms are usually typically considered to be more private like a Snapchat where you have disappearing messages or signals or, or even in Messenger now Facebook Messenger has an invisible chat. feature that’s on it, but especially when they’re starting on the games Yes, with Roblox, Fortnite, Minecraft, whatever those chats is hi, like just like you’re saying, and then it’s like, “Hey, want to snap,” you know, and that’s it, then it’s off platform and then that’s not something that a parent can monitor anymore, because there are parental monitoring features. That exists within the chats and some of these games exist that are there, you know, and that’s where Microsoft and some others respond and say, “Here’s what we’re doing and here’s how parents can monitor things,” but when they move off platform, that’s one of the things to let your kids be aware of. If somebody asks you in a game, you know, because I’m not going to tell my kids to stop playing every single game. That’s as a chat feature, right? Plus, they’re almost 15. Yeah, exactly. It’s not realistic at all, you know, but if anybody ever asks you, you know, here’s some questions to look out for but if they ask you to go to a different platform, some sort of messaging app, that’s a red flag for you to come and tell me right away and just have me look at it and we’ll see what this person’s about because I want you to be safe. I don’t want anything that ever happened to you. I love you so very much. I care about you and you can ask me any question you would ever want to ask me and I will answer it
If you’ve gone down some path that you’re scared about, and you’re scared to tell us about. I can handle it. I’d be mad for a second but I love you and I can handle it. We’ll get through it.
That’s responsible parenting. Yeah, creating that so that they feel that there’s an area of no judgement and they feel that you are the safe place. Because if they don’t feel that you’re the safe place, as a parent, they’re going to go to somebody else that they feel as a safe place and only take 72 hours for them to go to some place with that person they feel is the safe place
You know and a lot of the conversations we see like my parents don’t understand me and then that predator’s like okay, well, hey, and so just let’s be that safe place. Let’s have profiles that we’re proud of. Let’s just be better. If we could just, you know, I get a call from the Attorney General and this happened like, what, six months ago and Utah saying we have a girl that was getting raped by 30 Dudes 15 year old in a car naked. I know you guys have resources here, you know, through a friend of a friend like how can we all band together and get this girl’s resources? The reason I have just strong disdain for grown women using social media sexual symbol is because of the calls and the things that we see like that because we can be better. We can be responsible parents, we can be role models without having to teach kids that they should use their body to get approval. There’s so much more to us than that.
So that’s why I have such a disdain for it. i On the surface, it can seem really abrupt but the reason I have such a disdain for such a disregard for safeguarding the next generations of females, is I just want women to go wait a minute, I can be better and I want to be better. But I can’t preach like Jesus loves the whole thing and fights against trafficking if I don’t even care about protecting my own daughters in the next generation, from maybe thinking about let’s be awesome. Like, let’s safeguard just our bodies and so that’s another piece when you asked me about, you know, how do you talk to kids about sex? It’s like safeguarding your body like let’s help remember how awesome that we are and it’s not this filter deluded thing that we do all this in this crazy online world we live in. It actually can be amazing sex can be us wonderful thing that someday in the right context, you should be able to share but if you’ve gone down a path you’re scared about, come tell us we can talk about it but right now everyone is just like I use the term pedaling to beat the band when we’re just going going going every parent every everyone’s going the wrong direction. I mean it comes back together, pulls our families back together like okay, because truly our kids, my kids are the first generation to grow up online and what we’re seeing is they’re getting all of the destruction left behind and we got to try to pick up the pieces so we just have to be better be freaking better that’s it we can all be better and then if you’re not better just be better tomorrow like let’s just always be patient and kind with each other and love ourselves a little bit more and okay, yeah, maybe I did this one thing that was bad but I just want to be better or I posted this picture or sent a nude pic is I know you did I know you did like it’s fine. Like let’s move on and be better. Just like I always like you said in the beginning I always use the firearm analogy.
Some people I work with on the road and some other countries are like, “Oh, you guys have guns there and it’s pretty scary.” But once you’re educated, man, same thing with pornography. It’s gonna be there. Let’s talk about it. You’re going to see it. What do you do? Shut it off, because I’m gonna tell you what, right now. It’s heroin. It’s heroin for people’s brains and so if you gave somebody a phone like your kid that say I’m a mom, and I knew okay, so remember your kids seeing pornography or anyone it’s like a shot of heroin right? If you knew that giving your kid an iPhone, if there was some button somewhere on that they could push on there somehow, some way they actually get a real shot of heroin. Do you think you’d hand them that phone recklessly like you are? Yeah, you wouldn’t. So let’s talk about it because what they’re having their hands on is literally doing the same chemical reaction and so we got to stop being scared and just talk and be kind and be forgiving.
I cannot wait until your documentary comes out. And as Awareness continues to go up, you know, I love how you’ve even changed your attitude towards rescue because a lot of the focus I feel right now and awareness is on individuals that are trying to do things you know, even like celebrities like I think I think Ashton Kutcher has something big time that he’s going after right now which is amazing. Let him go after right. But we’re putting the focus on the dude rather than the people that are in the shit right now. You know, and understanding the psychology of what’s going on. I appreciate you for everything that you’re doing. You brought the fire today, Cammy.
Yeah it’s hard not to, it’s hard not to.
Yep. I hope parents that this encourages you to and you can follow kami where she’s at Cammy Bowker on Instagram and the website is globalep.org
Yeah, it’s got too much peace of mind. You know, and if people are like, Well, how do I really help? Get involved, start talking, you know today. Talk to your husband, your wife. Also, you can, you know, help us gather supplies for victims. You can host a fundraiser. You know, we rely solely on donations, and we couldn’t do anything that we do without you guys. We’ve worked all over the world but truly if you want to get involved, just go to globalep.org sign up as a volunteer and you can be an advocate in your own community. Start talking and just really just be better but anytime you want to just hit us up at globalep.org Send us an email. Get your company involved. We have some business sponsorship packages where you can donate a percentage of your sales to fight trafficking, and we’ll make sure 100% of it goes to the victims. So
Thank you. Enjoy the rest of the month. Let’s blow it up and make some people aware of what’s really going on.
This video because January is Trafficking Awareness Month. So raising awareness itself can help open up the conversations and truly help someone that you have in the circle of influence to be to prevent trafficking. So share this video and share this podcast globally. p.org Thanks for having me, Rick.
- Bob Sellers
- BBC correspondent
- Wuhan lab
- Grand Theft Auto
- Epic Games
- Facebook Messenger (Parent control)