The Oldest Brother Who Found His Own Lane | JR Butler

Episode Topics:

• Learn how to find your own lane when you’re not the most naturally talented person.
• Discover why failing spectacularly can be the best thing that happens to your career.
• Find out how to transfer athletic mindset into sales success.
• Understand why extreme ownership beats natural talent every time.
• Get the blueprint for turning personal struggle into business purpose.

 

Rick Jordan  

What’s shakin’? Hey, I’m Rick Jordan, and today we’re going all in. My guest today is founder and CEO of shift group, the sales and marketing and training firm that specializes in helping college, professional and Olympic athletes transition into the world of technology sales. If you know anything about me, you’ve been following me for a while. That’s literally like my job, right? Is technology sales. It’s not just selling stuff and all that sits selling yourself, selling your company, selling the services, selling the outcome, is what I do, day in and day out, to investors, to clients, all of those things. I am excited to welcome Jr Butler, what’s shaking JR?

 

JR Butler  

I’m not Rick, pumped to be here, Bud.

 

Rick Jordan  

Same here. You know, as I was reading through who you are and what you’ve done, right? You going from a series a startup to a $2 billion acquisition by IBM is pretty freaking impressive. Man, tell me a little bit about that.

 

JR Butler  

It was, it was an awesome ride. I think, you know, anybody with success that doesn’t tell you there’s a little bit of a lot of luck involved, I think, is full of crap. Personally, you know, I, I remember very vividly I was, I was a reseller. I started my sales career kind of as a value added reseller. And I actually ran into this company at a customer, and my customer did a demo for me, because I was kind of, you know, he knew I was looking for something, and I had a startup bug. He showed me a demo of the product. At the time, the company was really, really tiny, really early on the revenue side. And as soon as he explained it to me from his perspective as a customer, I was like, I want to join, I need to join that company. So that’s how I kind of found out about it. I got in touch with the CEO, and I was there three months later. It was the best decision I ever made in my career.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome, man. That’s a wild ride to going from literally nothing up to a multi billion dollar valuation or acquisition. That’s That’s incredible. That’s like, what dreams are made of. You know how did you in that process, right? I’m sure you probably had this, you know, somewhere along the way. And I’m saying this because I can relate to this. A lot of people. Do you get to a moment like last week, just completed an acquisition, the first of our public company, and as I’m standing there right at this happy hour with my my many dozens of new employees from this acquisition. I’m looking around and I’m like, in a moment, I’m like, Man, I need to soak this in right now, right? Because the public company has, has revenue, it has it has assets now it has people, which is really awesome, and but getting to that point, it’s like, even in that moment, because of that, it’s like, how the heck is this me that’s doing this, right? Did you ever ask yourself that question?

 

JR Butler  

Oh, all the time. I mean, I think, you know, imposter syndrome is definitely a real thing. And I definitely, you know, we were, we were signing up some of the biggest logos, literally, in the world like, you know, famous CIOs, famous IT organizations with multi billion dollar budgets, you know, closing deals from the first meeting To po and under six months. And I was just like, this is, this is unbelievable. But you know, you gotta, as a sales guy, you gotta kind of remind yourself, you know. And I grew up in the EMC kind of era in Boston, and there was a saying at EMC, uh, Roger Marino used to say, hey, it’s the product stupid. So you got to remind yourself, as a sales guy, don’t let your head get too big at the end of the day. You know, you’re a big part of it. The customer is buying the product. And we just had a great product. So that’s what’s kind of like my my damn back to Earth moment.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s important. It really is important that you have a good product, because nobody would get behind what I’m doing right now if it wasn’t actually something that worked. You know, I mean, they back me, of course, and the early investors would back me because they would believe in the vision. But if the vision itself was crap, they believed in me to execute it. But if the vision itself was crap, the product is crap. There’s no way that you can do that. I always had a tough time selling because prior to this, you know, I wrote the sales playbook for Best Buy, for B to B when they were trying to be a VAR, and I trained that out to all of their business technology consultants that they called them. It’s like, this is how you sell. This is how you sell as a VAR because Best Buy is trying to become this thing, but they couldn’t understand it. And some of the stuff was just garbage, right? And I stopped, and I would tell them, like, don’t sell this. Sell that. Because this other stuff I don’t even believe in. I can’t train you how to sell something that I don’t even believe in.

 

JR Butler  

100% that belief in the product, I think, is it’s usually the differencemaker between success and mediocrity when it comes to sales people, in my opinion.

 

Rick Jordan  

No doubt. Man, how long ago was that with IBM, with the acquisition by IBM?

 

JR Butler  

They purchased us in 2021 early 2021.

 

Rick Jordan  

So very recent. Then. Yeah, within the last year and a half.

 

JR Butler  

Like, little less than two years ago. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Dude, how did you go from division one hockey to this? I saw that in there too, bro, you played Division One hockey for the, you know, Holy Cross in Central Massachusetts, where you grew up. But, man, how in the world did you go from hockey the tech?

 

JR Butler  

A recurring theme, I think in my life, Rick is luck, and this is no different. I literally was at a bar after a men’s league hockey game, and I was going to go to law school. Literally, I was going to take the summer off study for an LSAT take it, and I met a guy who owned a bar in my hometown, you know, and he knew me from hockey, and he was like, he’s like, Dude, you know, technology is the future JR. He’s like, you know, you can go to law school and, you know, put in a lot of hours. He goes, if you come work for me, and this is at the beginning of, kind of like the virtualization, you know, rise. He’s like, I guarantee you can make, you know, quarter, quarter million dollars within three years. And I think ultimately, for me, I wanted to make a lot of money, like my parents, you know, we’re both kind of sales people, so I understood that you can make a lot of money selling. So I said, Screw it. I said, instead of studying for the LSAT this summer, I’ll try this, and I can tell you my third day, I walked into his office and I told him, this is what I want to do the rest of my life like I knew immediately.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome, man, when those things cross your path to the things that you just don’t plan on it right? Usually there’s something that you’ve done right, and it could, it could blindside you as far as where it comes from, like going from hockey to tech, right, or hockey to sales. But there had to have been something, I mean, if you’re in hockey, there had to have been something that you started preparing yourself mentally for in order to have this opportunity come across. Were you even ready to say yes to it? Right? Because you, because it could have easily said no. But what was your mindset at that time, man, to be like, All right, I’m just going to say yes to this thing.

 

JR Butler  

I think, like, generally, you know, I want, I knew, I wanted to bet on myself, right? Like, when you talk about experience that kind of led you there, you know, I wasn’t like a highly touted recruit. I essentially, you know, basically, worked my way into a division one spot on a roster, and I think for me, picking something in my career where it was like I wanted to be accountable to myself and like rely on what I could produce to be successful. And I kind of saw that in law too, but with sales, it’s like, it hits you right in the face. It’s like, what you eat, what you kill, and it’s 100% on you, and it’s like, really Extreme Ownership. So I think for me, I’ve always been that kind of accountable person and really self reliant, so that I think that foundation is what made the decision pretty easy for me early on. You know what I mean? 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, did you were you always that way? Or was there something that you went through to make you into that person?

 

JR Butler  

I So I’m the oldest of three boys, right? And by both my little brothers also played Division One hockey. One of my brothers was an Olympic was an Olympic athlete, played in the NHL. And I asked my dad a few summers ago, when did you know that Bobby was going to be in the NHL? And he’s like, I knew when he was seven. So, and my father was a high school hockey coach for like, 40 years. So you know that created kind of like, a situation in my household where, like, naturally, my brother and his, like, talent is going to get a little bit more attention, right? Like, no fault of my parents. Like, my dad’s a hockey guy, and he’s got this, this kid that he knows as a hockey guy is going to be one of, literally, one of the best in the world. Yeah, he’s got it already. Yeah. So I kind of like, you know, I was always kind of fending for myself, like, my mom didn’t know that kids got homework until like fourth grade, because when I was in third grade, all the way up to third grade, I never asked my mom for help, and then my brother comes home in like kindergarten with homework and, like, needs help, and my mom called the teacher, and she’s like, JR never got homework, and the teacher was like, Yeah, he did. He just did it himself. So I think, like, that was kind of like, I was always kind of like, you know, really, like, on my own and really accountable to myself. That’s kind of how I’ve always been. I think.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s cool, and you had to be because you were in the circumstances that you had with your brother. Of course, you know, there’s things that everybody just has natural talent and ability at you know, and that’s it’s there. But still, if you just ride that town, I’m sure your brother still works his ass off, right, to be that good and improve on that. But then there’s other things. It’s like, where you’ve got that other person, and this was similar to interesting story, like between my brother and I, except the role. Were kind of reversed. It’s like, I was your brother when it comes to business and some other things, you know, to where it’s just like, there’s a lot of things that he had to work his ass off, but it’s like, I’m working off even harder because it’s really cool, man, because you’re the oldest, right? Yep, as you said, and to see somebody with that talent, and it’s like, man, you know what? That’s cool. And you can support him as a brother, and then at the same time, be like, I got my own gig over here, and I’m secure in this too.

 

JR Butler  

Exactly, exactly you gotta find, you gotta find a role, right? You gotta find a role in the locker room. So I found mine.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, how, how did that go for you? Because this is, uh, this is difficult to swallow. Sometimes, you know when you see somebody, especially somebody that you might be close to, and maybe something that you’ve dreamt of for years, to where you start to recognize that, you know what? There’s other people that are more talented than me. I look back and I played baseball for nine years, right through middle of high school, and I’ve always said it’s like, I wonder what would have happened if I would have stuck with it, because I was really good even two weeks ago, there’s like, Well, man, you got the frame for it. Like a guy who represents, you know, MLB Taylor was, like, you really got the frame for it? I’m like, that’s great. I don’t know what would have happened, but then I see some of these players that are out there is like, I don’t think I had that talent, if I’m honest with myself, dude, I don’t think I had that talent to do what that dude just did right now, you know, it’s how is that for you in those moments, you know, to come to that realization and awareness be like, I’ve got my own stuff that I can be really, really good at, too. Things are even better than what my brother is, because that’s his gig, and I got my gig.

 

JR Butler  

Yeah, well, I, you know, if I’m being honest, I think at a young, at a younger age, it’s, it’s, it’s hard, right? Like, you know that that those emotions show up differently as a 15 year old than they do as a as a 35 year old. So I think I definitely, like in my life, struggled with a little jealousy and a little like kind of anger. But to your point, right? Like nobody is more proud of both my brothers than me, but I think for me, I found other ways to your point of, like, you know, I always excelled in the classroom, like I always was the center of attention, and every, you know, every room I was in. So like, to your point, like, I found the things that I was good at, and I made sure I did those really, really well. And it’s probably partially to get my father’s attention, but that turned out to, like, really work out for me in the long run. So I think as I got older, that jealousy and kind of resentment went away very quickly, and I really, kind of grew to really be comfortable in my own skin and be really proud of what my brothers have accomplished on their own. You know.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s really cool, man, because this transitions into the sales realm too. It absolutely does, because there’s some people that you can see walk in, right? I mean, I’ve got a podcast, right? I’m grateful. I’m humble, because I just found out about two weeks ago that this show is top two and a half percent in the world in its global rank, you know. And it’s mind blowing to me, because it’s been four years, you know, but I look back and was I good at the beginning of this? It’s like, sure, you know, I had better speaking skills than the majority of people. That’s awesome. But I still look back and say, God, I sucked when I look at the first year of this. But the thing is, is that when you try, when you look at like a business environment or sales, and I’m sure you saw this, and I want to hear a story, because I’d love to hear a story of somebody falling on their face, right? Because this is to encourage everybody else, not you. Maybe it was you. If you look around and you see other people with that talent, I’ve noticed that some will try to just ride that talent rather than putting in the hard work. And those individuals just almost stay right where they’re at, because there’s a limit to how far your raw, pure talent can take you without consistent growth and just pushing yourself on top of that, and then the others around you in a sales environment or wherever, will continue to work on themselves and then surpass you because they knew that they couldn’t get by just on their talent. They had to develop what you did. Not saying that your brother, I’m sure he pushed it really hard, right? But this is, you’ve seen this around, haven’t? You to where those are just riding on their talent and stay stagnant.

 

JR Butler  

Yeah, 100% like, you know, there’s a lot of kids with their, you know, naturally, you know, intellectually curious. They’re competitive people. You know, I actually have a story about me falling on my face and realizing that, like my personality, my ability to connect with people wasn’t going to be what got me to that next kind of echelon of sales person. I was in a meeting and a guy, a guy, asked me in a technical question about a product we were selling him, and I completely bullshitted Rick, like, I completely was like, Yeah, you know, it goes X, Y and Z, and, you know, the meeting ended. I thought the meeting went great. And as I was walking out, I said to my CTO, I’m like, Hey, that’s a great they’re going to be a great customer, like, they’re going to love us. And he’s like, no, they’re never calling us back. Njr, and I’m like, why? He’s like, Dude, you just completely bullshitted him about power path, virtual edition. It was this EMC product we were selling, and never again. And for sure, he was right. We never heard from those guys again. It was a great account, and I screwed up, and I never, I said, I’ll never, ever make that mistake again. I’ll never just rely on my natural personality skills, my natural ability to connect with people. I’m also going to become a subject matter expert in whatever I’m selling, and I’m going to be a student of the game. And it would never have happened if I didn’t screw up that huge account like that was kind of my come to Jesus moment as a salesperson. You know what I mean.

 

Rick Jordan  

For sure, man, I appreciate you being that open and transparent and vulnerable with everyone too, because it’s a it’s great to put everything, all your good accolades on when you show up on a show like this. You know, I appreciate your vulnerability there. I noticed one of the same things with me, because I thought going into pitch TV producers, you know, now it’s five years later, and I go on Newsmax, ABC, NBC. I was on CBS last week, national, you know, all these places actually call me to be on now, but I remember my first time pitching TV producers and thinking, you know, I speak on stage all the time. No problem, right? And I didn’t prep. I had segments, because I depended on just my natural oratory skills to just bring the energy, because I’m an energetic individual. And I kept getting, I mean, out of like, 13 or 14 producers in this thing, it was almost kind of like speed dating with them a little bit. You know, there’s other people like racking up the numbers, right? And as they’re doing that, they’d get like, 12 someone, someone got all 14 producers to say yes and invite them on. You know, I got four. Bro, my very first time, I kept on getting no after No, after No, after No. And I My Media coaches there too is like, Dude, you’re so freaking robotic. And I’m like, I don’t get it. I like, and I found out that it was like the transference of that skill set is what I needed to work on, because it was way different talking on stage in front of 1000s of people than it was actually talking to one person at that point on Skype. This was before zoom took off right, like on a camera on a TV. You know, it was way different, just a different vibe that I had not prepared for. Same thing, I was like, I’m never making that mistake again. And then I went back four months later, just four months later, after working on that transference, and I nailed all 14 and I got all 14 producers. But it’s but in those moments, it’s like, I love that we can enjoy. And I say enjoy, because in the moment, they’re bad, right? But after the fact, we can, we can enjoy those moments of suck in our life to where it’s like, Man, did I really suck, as long as we can look back and say, Well, I did something about it, right?

 

JR Butler  

Yep. And to your point, there are, there are people that go through those lessons and they don’t learn from it. They don’t have the self awareness and the humbleness to be like, I’m wrong, and I gotta fix this.

 

Rick Jordan  

Oh, dude, that’s where they transition into, like, victimhood, you know, towards play. I could have been like, oh, the producers just don’t know. They just don’t get me, you know. Or they they had the wrong information in front of them. Or, or for you, it’s like, you know what? These just weren’t the right clients to begin with. Or you can make up so many different excuses, but when you’re looking at everybody but you in that moment, you were playing a freaking victim, 100% dude, I love you for real. We’re having a good time today. Man, hope you’re having fun. We don’t have a lot of time left, but so your brother’s going on to NHL, right? Is he in the NHL right now?

 

JR Butler  

No, he’s. He retired for a year and a half, and he actually came back at 35 and he’s still playing pro hockey, but he’s playing in the East Coast Hockey League in our hometown, in Worcester mass so he’s still playing, but not at that level anymore.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s cool. I’m curious, does your family background in hockey? You know, it probably does, and if it does, what does it have to do with your choice of what you’re doing right now and helping athletes transition right into this world of sales?

 

JR Butler  

Well, for me, it’s, it’s pretty simple. Rick I, I started the company for me, right like I when I was 23 years old, I did not I like. I wasn’t. I struggled like I, you know, when you when you’re an athlete, your entire identity is tied up into this thing, because you put so much time, energy and effort into it, and then one day, it doesn’t matter if you’re 23 or 33 or, you know, 18 when it happens, it’s just gone. And I think you know with athletes specifically, what I try to let them know is like, your identity shouldn’t change. You should still be an athlete. You just have to apply all those athletic tendencies that brought you to a. Division One, scholarship, a professional contract and an Olympic, you know, an Olympic trip. Take that and now apply it to this. Don’t change who you are, just change where your focus is, and you get to keep all that stuff that makes you who you are. So for me, nobody said that to me, nobody told me that I had to figure it out over a little bit of time, it affected me, personally, emotionally, like, you know, I’ve been sober for a decade, but I really went down like a dark path with drugs and alcohol, until I found this, until I started applying the same focus that I did in athletics to this. And now, you know, my life changed, and now I want to bring that to everybody that’s like me at that age, at 23 that’s going through that like dark night of the soul, moment when the thing they love the most is gone all of a sudden. So that’s really kind of that whole experience, is the whole reason I started the company, Rick, to be honest with you.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s powerful man. You mentioned your sobriety, and you know the dark nights of the soul. Do you think you would be who you are right now without having those moments?

 

JR Butler  

No way, absolutely not, absolutely not. I, you know, people talk a lot of I mean, everybody has regrets, but I don’t think I would change what I went through, because I wouldn’t be where I am or who I am today without it. No doubt

 

Rick Jordan  

Those hardships are, are good in a lot of ways, where they they help mold you into who we are. Some of them, I do feel that the hardships could have been avoided, and they were things that might we would still be in the same place we are today. And then there’s others, like what you’re talking about, that you’re grateful that you had those, even though, at the same time, it’s usually ourselves that causes them. Regardless, almost 100% of the time, it’s usually ourselves that causes those hardships to begin with, and then coming through those it’s also us that brings us out of them. Yep, that’s the power in that, man. I commend you. Brother, you’re amazing. Dude. What’s next for you? You know, where do you see this cut, this amazing venture you’re on going

 

JR Butler  

Where? I mean? So my, my belief, is that athletes are a great fit for sales. I grew up in tech sales and software sales. So we’re going to build as big a business as we can in this space, and then we want to expand it into other sales industries. We want to, we want to help people break into medical device. We want to help people break into, you know, financial services sales and insurance sales and, you know, pharmaceutical sales. So our vision for the company is really like being the any athlete that wants to transition into sales. We hope the first thing they think about is shift group. That’s our goal.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s so awesome, man, I appreciate that. Dude, you’re amazing. Hearing your story has just been incredible for me. It’s inspired me today, dude, thanks for coming on and going all in.

 

JR Butler  

Thanks for having me. Rick, keep it up, buddy. This is awesome!