An Accidental Entrepreneur | Chris Van Dusen

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Episode Topics:

• Discover Chris Van Dusen’s journey from entrepreneur to VC leader.
• Learn the importance of investing in people for business success.
• Understand the unique approach SEO Capital takes in venture investing.
• Get insights into scaling and optimizing your business for growth.
• Hear firsthand experiences and lessons from a seasoned venture capitalist.

 

Rick Jordan  

What’s shaken Hey, I’m Rick Jordan. Today we’re going all in. Chris Van Dusen, did I say that right?

 

Chris Van Dusen  

You did? I did.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome. You know, usually, I get it right, you know, with any kind of death, but your name’s easy, you know, I just wanted to make sure that I got it correct. Huntington Beach, California. I love it, my man. Thanks for coming on the show, dude.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Oh, thanks for having me. This is an awesome pleasure.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome. I see a couple of things behind you if anybody’s watching this. One is your self-portrait, as you were saying before we started the show, right? Chewbacca. 

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Chewbacca is absolutely huge. Star Wars. Man, yep.

 

Rick Jordan  

And the other is your VC firm, yes, which is pretty cool, you know, because I was reading, as my team put together some awesome notes that you were a partner in like, three acquisitions in the exits with that, you know is that what led you to start the VC firm was that your proceeds, your liquidity from those

 

Chris Van Dusen  

You know, actually, no, the firm was established. The founder, John Garcia, and I became friends back in 2017 and I can share a little bit about my background, but he some of the firm in 17, we got to each other, became really good friends, and understood the ethos of the firm and how different it is than traditional venture. That is really what led me there. It’s kind of a past operator, but yeah, the company so like, oh, capital, amazing firm headquartered out at Rochester, Michigan. We have offices in Dallas, Louisville, and Miami, and I’m out in California. 

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome. How does that? Because you’ve got a pretty deep story, and it that’s something we were talking about sharing, and I would love you to go into that because I’m sure it ties back into how you started doing what you were doing,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Absolutely the accidental entrepreneur, right? That wasn’t what I set out to do, right? And grow up saying I’m gonna go on the roller coaster. That is being an entrepreneur. I can’t wait, right? Can’t wait to get out of college.

 

Rick Jordan  

Who says that? Anyways, I don’t know anybody for sure.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

I don’t know what person wants that kind of brain damage, right? It’s, it’s high risk, high reward. Everyone thinks it’s linear. It is absolutely not. It is all over the place, and it will grind you, but it’s amazing. So no, I played baseball in college. That’s what I plan to do. Just to be frank, I was gonna go play baseball and still to bullpen my sophomore year, and there went my arm. I was a pitcher, so you have to pivot and go, well, now what am I gonna do with my life? Right? I was going to the college we were in Mary, in Virginia, in Virginia, and ended up graduating a degree in economics. The funny thing is, you get hurt, and you’re not on the team anymore. They can’t kick you out of school. So thank goodness I got a degree in economics. And you know, to know me is to know that I would not do very well sitting behind a cube, right, doing analyst work with a degree in economics, so I ended up in sales. Did that for years. I graduated oh three, moved out to California at the end of oh nine, and the company I came out for ended up having trouble and going bankrupt about 75 days after I moved here. Wow, I was in finance at the time, but I was a wholesaler, so I was selling at the time, growth in income funds, mezzanine debt, just different things in the real estate space, which, oh, by the way, was 2007 to 2009 so trying to sell real estate products at that point was its own interesting. Yeah, you know, I did what every good unemployed person does, start a consulting firm, right? Ended up working that into a marketing firm.

Exactly. My wife started. I met my wife in 2010 right? After all this stuff started happening, she ended up starting her own marketing firm in 2012 I started mine in 2015 and it was great. We were doing conversion rate optimization, high-intent media buying, and really scaling these digitally native vertical brands before that was a thing, right? I mean, everyone was scaling companies, but this idea of really focusing on growth, focusing on conversion optimization, instead of just, can I throw more money at the problem, right? Can I buy more ads? Was something that really wasn’t done as much as it is now, a great agency had a lot of fun. Met these five guys through a mutual friend. This was the beginning of 17, and they endeavored and had just started essentially what ended up being the second largest CBD brand in the world, behind Charlotte swept company called CB Distillery, and so I joined as the chief revenue officer. In about two years, we had 120 employees. We’re in 17 countries. Wow. It was insanity. We ended up selling that business to a publicly traded company in 2021 in August, and it’s all public record. We sold for 75 million. Yeah, and then during that period of 2017 to 21, because I’m a glutton for punishment, I’m still running the agency. I have this company in Denver that I’m flying out three, or four days a week for damage, right?

 

Rick Jordan  

Voluntary, 100 just a glutton.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

But my wife and I co-founded a liquor distillery with another couple here in Huntington Beach called Serb City. Still works. We did a merger in 21 with that business as well. And then we sold another brand in 19 as a beauty care line in the CBD space. And so 10. Be exits. That’s fun. The funny thing is, I can show you a graveyard of other things we thought were good ideas that no one talks about, right? No one’s batting 1000 Yeah, I’m certainly not. And then I raised two funds in the cannabis space. At the time, traditional ventures two and 20 all focused on picks and shuttles. So ERP systems, analytics companies, accessory companies, things didn’t touch the underlying commodity. Not to get into a tangent, but state by state, commodity pricing, meaning you’re looking at the actual flower and its supply and demand on how much can be harvested in the state, to try to time that right anywhere else in the supply chain is extremely difficult, or at least it was. Maybe someone was much smarter than I was, but we didn’t want to play with that. We wanted to play on the other side of it. And then, as I mentioned, I met John Garcia in 2017 and became friends as he was building the firm cycle capital. I was doing the things I just kind of went through, and after the last sale in 21 reconnected, and I joined the firm as a senior partner in January of 22 what’s amazing about the firm is it’s totally different than traditional venture, yeah, and, you know, I’ll save again the long story. 

 

But traditional venture, they go raise a fund, they identify companies, they deploy capital, yeah, for us, we do it a little bit differently in that, we go identify great companies, great platforms, and then we raise the capital for that, and we may take a few companies that are all raising and put them together. The difference is, that you can see those assets versus investing in a thesis, right? You want to invest in ESG or AI or something industrial manufacturing, and then have a window in which you need to find companies to deploy that capital. So it’s a very different way. The other thing is, there are 11 of us senior partners, and the vast majority of the team work within these portfolio companies. We have about 34 in our portfolio today. They’re working within they’re helping drive value early during this kind of formidable stage. And then a few of us are out doing the traditional venture roles, raising capital, finding deals and what we call power brokers, and figuring out how our ecosystem works together, and then what we can do to bring extra benefit to them from the outside, third parties as well. So yeah, very unique firm. We don’t have a mandate if you will. We invest in everything from AI, we just made an investment to industrial manufacturing, biotech, FinTech, property, tech, really open hospitality as well, and straight-play real estate. So really open. We find great deals that we can make alpha for our investors.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s really cool. It’s interesting. I like, yeah, you’re really like a mirror image of most traditional VC firms. You know, at least, how you’re explaining it anyway. Yeah,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

it’s whatever’s that. And you know, again, I don’t like getting on a platform of dogging the industry per se, but traditional venture drives a lot of great returns when you’re in these top-tier funds. If you look at kind of the average it performs better than the S, and P performance better than than other traditional investments, but when you look at the risk-reward profile, it becomes a little different. And so for us, identifying the companies we want to go in and being shepherds through these this time, we find works a lot better in our perspective, and of course, I’m biased, but in our perspective, works a lot better to drive their ability to get to the next round or the next, you know, potential liquidity event, that’s really cool.

 

Rick Jordan  

You know, I talk with individuals all the time, you know, they got this great idea, this great product, and, like, I’m just going to go out and raise capital for it, you know? And I’m like, Yeah, dude, you talk about the brain damage, you know? I mean, taking a company public was just enough, you know, over the last three years for me. And it’s you know, but it still doesn’t stop, you know. But then there are other ideas, and there’s still capital to be raised. It’s like, you always raise money. Always raise money to raise more money, to raise more money, to raise more money, even with with baby stages in the public markets. And it’s I learned the hard way, by going through it, you know, and I never went the VC route, because there’s, there really was an IP. But for somebody who is like Man, I got this idea, you know, one thing I found out, you know, through the lumps that I took, is that there really needed to be at least some sort of meat on the bone. Is what it seems like the marketplace is looking for today, you know. So when I had this roll up, and I want to ask you your opinion on this, and when your advice to people out there, you know, what I ended up discovering was like, nobody really wanted to be the first money in, yeah, I had to be the first money in, yeah, you know. And even with, you know, because great revenue-producing business, but pre-revenue is a completely different story. You know, it’s like, I could do that, I could spin it, I could start the roll-up that I was doing, you know, to go public and say, like, sorry, you didn’t jump on board before I did this first one and showed you that it actually works, yeah, you know, then it’s people came back, like, oh, I want to get in now. It’s like, the deal is different. Now it is, you know,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

I think the tough part is you, you, you have these stages, right? You have this epiphany one day and you say, I have an idea that I think can change. The world, changes lives. Well, maybe just changed my life, either way, right? Usually, great entrepreneurs find solve some problem you hear, right, that they have in their life. What you don’t know is if everyone else has that same problem, first of all, right, that whole product market fit, and then secondarily, yeah, right, yeah. How committed are you as an entrepreneur to do this, right? Yeah, you know, I’ve heard other people talk, you know, I only invest in people if they’ve quit any other way, and they’re, you know, another way of making income, and they’re full in and a lot of ways, I have to agree, because we’re giving you capital, and traditionally, that’s our capital, and investor capital we are providing to you. You need to be a good steward of that for sure, and do the best you can for it, right? So this is a part-time job. You’re not raising capital, yeah, you have to be kind of all in, if you will, right, unintended. You have to be all into this idea. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Look at that and our new answer. So Lego cap

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Number two, if you’re going to think about raising money, you have to look and say, Is this something that I believe can generate a return on that money? Because there’s a difference between philanthropic dollars, right? Yeah, and I would call that in a lot of ways. I don’t see friends and family, but you hear stories, right? I know stories as well. Even our portfolio, you know, I have a $50,000 loan from my dad, yeah, right, yeah, I would say that’s more philanthropic, do you? Because they believe in you. That’s really where that kind of first. Angel’s friends and family. Actually, none of Angel’s friends and family really come in from there as you go through what we call the alphabet soup, right? So, you know, pre-seed, seed, A, B, C, to whatever right. The stakes become higher, the checks become bigger and the expectations become bigger. But if you as a founder, are committed, you see that this is going to be more than a lifestyle business, because there are great businesses, by the way, oh yeah, that you can start with very little money that produces wonderful income for you as the, you know, sole proprietor, or you and a partner, but we there’s no real way, logistically or with the right amount of capital mix to scale that business so that an investor can make a real return. Yeah, for sure. And so that’s, that’s part of what we look at. So it’s, how big do you think this is going to be? 

 

How big is your marketplace? Have you done enough with what you could get before a venture firm comes in or more institutional capital to show product market fit, to show this is something that people really want? We want to come in to put gas on the fire, not light the fire. Yeah, yeah. And that’s a very big difference, right? And so the advice is, you’re going to end up having to start slow, and that’s okay, because you’re going to fail quickly and you’re going to fail at low stakes, or you’re going to succeed at low stakes and have a body of work proof in your MVP, right? Or in your, you know, in what you put together to show someone like me, or, you know, other haircuts other than me. And there’s something here more meaningful, right, than just this idea, and that’s really what we want to see. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yep, you got it, by the way. I love your haircut.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

It’s fantastic. We’re like twins. 

 

Rick Jordan  

There’s a lot of weird mirror image talk today going on with everything. Yeah, it’s, I love where you’re going with that because it’s an I always wish the best for individuals, you know. And it’s a I never went out. You’re talking about, like the differences between a lifestyle business, too. And I, I have had clients, have clients, you know, that might have a business producing $77 million a year in revenue, you know. And for an entrepreneur, I mean, I just think of myself like 10 years ago, right? You know, or you when you were going at it back in 2007 it’s like that seemed unattainable, you know? And now it’s like there’s clients that are doing that, but quite literally, you know, this one client I was talking to, the owner, he’s like, he has no interest in his business, even producing $77 million of revenue a year, is not set up to take on investors, you know, he’s built it to a point to where it’s like, that there’s good value, that there’s good cash flow that’s produced by it. But he’s done it all through managing debt really, really well, you know, and some patents and everything. But he’s built it to the point to where he’s like, you know, my kids are just going to take it over and, you know what if I if they can just pay my expenses. Because I think he’s 6667 right now, you know, for the next 20 years, you know whatever my salary is right now, that’s fine. That’s good. I don’t need anything else out of it. But when you start to look at the financials of that organization like this is something that no VC firm would ever touch in the current state that it’s in, even at 77 million in revenue, yeah, totally different.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

The thing is, when you move from venture to private equity, right? You will separate those. Obviously venture might do it because the company is not set up to, I’m just using round numbers to 10x over the next five to seven years, right? It’s not like maybe they’ve capped out on the total suppliers. It’s just a business that has kind of this captive audience. There aren’t extensions. Ins, right? Like, there’s all these things, you’re going on a venture deal. Yeah, we want cash flow. I guess we want more than to multiply the real return. You got it, right? And so, so no, we’re not going to look at that and go, Okay, I see we’re going to take this regional firm and make a regional company and make it national and multiple verticals, right by building teams and injecting capital. However, on the flip side, it could be part of a roll-up if they cleaned up what sounds like a semi-mismanaged totality of the company.

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s like a 1x mobile right now, which is not attractive for a VC,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

1. But on a private equity side, if it’s spitting out enough EBITDA, right, it might be interesting to go in and this is what you hear the big, evil private equity guys, but this is why they exist, is they’re looking at a company that’s doing 77 million in top-line revenue probably isn’t fully optimized or efficient from a profitability perspective, right? And they’ll go in and say, Great, I’ll buy 51% of the company, but I’m going to do this, this, this, this, this, and this to the company, and instead of spitting out 8% we’re gonna spit out 16 to 20% EBITDA, yeah. And they’ll make back their money. That’s the 10-year horizon, and now have a cash-flowing asset, right? With the debt gone, yeah. And so you start looking at it that way and go, Oh, that’s a play. But if he wants top value, I’d start working on that internal optimization of the business, right? For sure. You know, I mean, you could have a stronger overall business from a sales perspective, doing 60 million instead of 77 but doubling your EBITDA output, yeah, for sure.

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s so interesting. That’s the thing that most people don’t really

 

Chris Van Dusen  

think about. They think, you know, growth over yield, and that used to be the way, right? If you go through 21 growth over yield was more important. And you saw the capital markets as well when, when interest rates flipped, it was all about yield instead of growth right on it was right, yeah, and you’re gonna find that anytime interest rates kind of go back and forth, when capital is cheap or very inexpensive, growth is more important than yield, and when interest rates are higher, you’re going to start seeing the trend go to yield, meaning actual cash flow, actual EBITDA, more important efficiencies, optimization, absolutely. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, making more with what you have, like exactly what you said. You can actually make less on the top line, but make more on the bottom line,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

And what you’ll end up finding is most, most multiples, not all. Most multiples are a factor of EBITDA. Yeah, not that the 77 doesn’t matter, but you’re really going to on an exit or a majority recap, be looking at EBITDA multiple. So anything you can do to clean that up, not only in the pursuit of the sale, will you have more yield for potentially, the partners and who runs the firm? But downstream, you’ll get a higher multiple, even if your revenue

 

Rick Jordan  

isn’t as high. Yeah, yeah, for those listening, I’m hoping you know, because we’re starting to see the news now, right in the journal and everything else that the feds are actually considering, finally lowering rates substantially, you know, which will make the capital a lot easier to come by, at least debt anyways, you know, and get into the growth phase again.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

will capital be easier to come by, but it’s going to be a lack, yeah. So what you’re going to see is, yes, it’s easier to come by. And so from a business perspective, yes, I was about to go down the road of what that means for home prices, but I will leave that alone, because

 

Rick Jordan  

That is different. That’s great, but

 

Chris Van Dusen  

That’s why I also, I mean, I worry about that, because what does that look like from a downward pressure of of of of housing in general, which is also an indicator of the health of our economy, yeah. So I wonder about what that’s going to do there. Only time will tell. But yeah, I mean the chapter if, if capital becomes less expensive nationally through the rate cuts, in my opinion. And I think you’ll see most people have this opinion, M and A activity will start back up. Yeah, right, the flow of capital into businesses will start back up more towards directionally, what was happening in 21 but I don’t think we ever get back there. Yeah, yeah. Not in this kind of cohort or tranche of companies available that are starting, you know, the biggest wave we saw an overvalue would be an AI right over the last few years? Yep. Other than that, most companies still haven’t fully recovered from their last raises, or their valuations from 21 Yeah, so I think you’re gonna see a lot of businesses become more healthy with access to capital. But I don’t see us going back to where it was in 21 with these extremely overvalued companies, for sure.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, well, it was new and shiny. You know, we’ve seen that those have been cycles, literally cyclical things over the last. You know, seven decades. You could go back that far and see everything that’s brand new, especially in tech. I mean, when that came about, you know, we’ll say just maybe four decades ago, you know, when that really started to take root, anything that was new and shiny always had a huge valuation at first. I mean, I’ll even give you like, you know, because it, you know, in MSP and IT service company, cybersecurity, service. Property that, I tell you, it’s a role of play. Obviously, you know, went public. They used to think that we were SaaS firms, you know, that we actually had intellectual property that, you know, had had these large multiples on it. And 10 years ago, we were seeing, you know, 30, 40x multiples on companies that were only doing maybe a million dollars in EBITDA, you know, it was insane, and now we’re really seeing like, three to six, depending on the amount of annual recurring revenue that there is. So just to your point, is the same thing as AI, you know, investors tend to catch on, and that’s another type of lag, you know, with the newest, hottest thing to the market. And then finally, there’s a correction in the valuations, which, of course, will restrict access to capital, like you provide.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

The interesting thing is, AI is, is funny for me, and why I say that is, you know, we’ve seen these, yeah, we’ve seen these big types of plays, right? I’ll call it crypto before. It’s really a big play going all the way back to, you know, the.com boom in the early 2000s right? There’s these big things that come out. They kick all the attention. I think AI is going to transform the way we do business, and the way we live I’m bullish on it overall. What I don’t know, and I make the joke I’m just not smart enough, and I’m fine. I’ll take that one, right? Which language model is going to win, which middleware is an actual product versus a feature that the language model hasn’t actually rolled out yet, right? And so when you really look at the people who are going heavy in AI, it takes this portfolio theory approach, right? They raise large funds, and they go out and they place big bets on 1015, 20 companies within the fund, because they don’t know either which is going to be the thing. And I don’t want to speak for them, but everyone I’ve talked to is they’re just making big bets, because you need at least one company in Portfolio Theory inside of that fund to return 100% of the total raise, and then the rest is a bonus, and you typically have factored in a 40% failure rate of the portfolio. Wow. So when you build that, they build it by volume and by at-bats, if you will, within the fund, yeah. For us, we’ve made one play in AI, in this company called ai.io, great URL. They’re democratizing access to scouting and player development for sports, so you can be anywhere in the world and be able to be scouted something that hasn’t been available before. Wow, and they started with soccer, and they’ve changed the lives of people in Senegal and India, in all these places, these natural athletes who would never be scouted, who were able to be found and potentially get Premier League, you know, developmental contracts or showcased. It’s a fantastic practical use of AI that’s, for me, made a lot more sense than just betting on the next language model for sure or the next thing they might use for work.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yep, what’s going to write more human-like, than than before? Yeah, that’s just going to be evolution now at this point, versus a human aspect to AI, that’s phenomenal. I want to round it out with this man, because when you look for something to invest in, what are some of the metrics that you guys use? You know that you’re willing to share anyways, you know that says, Okay, here’s how we line up. You know what? You might want to call them, KPIs metrics, whatever. But what do you do to qualify someone for a potential investment? Yeah,

 

Chris Van Dusen  

so we have a large due diligence process, right as any farm would, but as a partner that’s out in the world, right? Kind of bird-dogging and looking at what’s available, I look at a few lenses before it ever finds its way to the due diligence team. So I’ll kind of start there. One is we invest in people as much as we invest in products, companies, platforms, whatever it is, is it a prerequisite that you have to be a second, third, or fourth-time founder? No, if I hear that you’ve had a successful exit and this is your new venture, I’m a little more intrigued. The reason is you already know the journey, yeah, and I mentioned earlier, the nonlinear entrepreneurial journey, the grit, the determination, the like hard work, the fact that you’re getting you know, you’re running into locked doors everywhere you go, whether or not it’s racing capital or closing deals against incumbents, whatever it may be, and you have the ability to continue to press forward and see it through to to a sale that already is a little one that I go, Okay, that’s good. Yeah, right. Number two, the people themselves, how do they interact? Is there a clear delineation of roles and responsibilities, right? Like, because at the end of the day, you could have the best product service company in the world, for sure, but if your leaders don’t agree, it’s not gonna go very far. 

 

Yeah, and that is one of the biggest reasons that companies fail early on, is disagreements between the founders. So I’m really I start with people as much as I start with Do you have something that’s meaningful, or are you building a lifestyle business? No judgment. If you are, it just isn’t the right fit, for sure. If you’re building something meaningful, what does meaningful mean? And in what timeline, right are you going to do something that requires large, multi-year government contracts? Yeah, it’s interesting, but it might not fit my thesis on when I need to or want to return capital to investors, for sure. So in this time frame of and not dogmatic, but five to seven years? Do I believe there’s enough meat here to raise capital from our investors and deploy it? Have you used it to grow and then return capital in some way that gives them the anticipated return we see available? And if that all matches up, then we’re going to go to the next phase and really go to your point, to the KPIs, right? What is your data room like? If you’re an A level, most seed rounds don’t necessarily have data rooms, but if you’re an A or B Company, you’re gonna have that. You’re gonna have customer data. You’re gonna have if you’re a consumer brand, your repeat purchase metrics, your LTE, it’s like, I wanna see all that. If you’re you know, industrial manufacturing, like, what is your what are your PO backlog look like? Are you getting capital to get material to grow, or are you now out trying to pitch your first customer, right? Like, those are all very different stages, for sure. And so that’s where we make the evaluation. And then it goes to a, like I said, a much deeper due diligence process with our team and our analysts, and we have an allocation team that makes the final decision of, yes, we will, and here’s how much, and here’s where it goes. Is going to be a standalone deal, or is it going to go into, what we call portfolio SPV, or a portfolio product that might have 1014, different companies in it, like a fund, but all those assets are predetermined, and so that’s really what we kind of go through that mix. But really people and the ability to scale are the biggest things we look at right on that’s phenomenal.

 

Rick Jordan  

I caught a couple of things in there too, because it’s always a question on my head when I saw I’ve seen a couple of founders speak, and they’re like, you know, the one thing to ask about private equity firms or even VCs, it’s like, what does the exit look like for you? You know, and I think that’s an important question to ask, from a founder’s perspective, is like, hey, what do you guys look at exiting? You know, you mentioned that, and there’s, like, five to seven years. We didn’t talk about specific returns, but that’s the timeline as well as something that’s important because some people that, I mean, in my experience, you know, will want to hold paper only for about 18 months. That’s it, and then that, that’s their exit. You know, they’re not there for the entire growth journey as you’re talking that, that your firm is they’re just there to make their quick flip, and that’s it, you know, which is a different stage in the capital raise game to 100%

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Yeah, I mean, our investors are with us, and I’ll say they’re long, but they’re, they’re not long any more than traditional venture would be. Everyone likes to say the five to seven years average venture is about a 10-year run from deploying capital to realizing, right, a return or not, by the way, that is also an option, right? Not one we like, but having it go, but it’s about, I’d say on average, five to seven is what you’re looking for. It could be 10 years, but that return on investment, multiple is what justifies the length of time.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, that’s beautiful, awesome. Brother Chris, thanks for being on man. So good conversation. Yeah. I hope this may debunk a lot of myths, you know, from DC out there, because everybody’s got ideas, which is awesome. We want to encourage those too. You know, 100 it just might not be the right time to talk to somebody like you, but it could be the right time to talk to somebody just before you get that $50,000 check from your dad. 

 

Chris Van Dusen  

 You know exactly, exactly believe in you, much more than anyone else at that stage. 

 

Rick Jordan  

I know exactly. Man, where can everybody find you? Yes.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

The easiest thing is silico capital.com LinkedIn is Chris M van Newsen. Same with Instagram, and I think Twitter’s at Van Dusen. So it’s all there. Post fairly regularly, mostly about silico, 

 

Rick Jordan  

Our companies and all the things we’re doing. I love it. Awesome, man. Thanks for coming on.

 

Chris Van Dusen  

Thank you. Appreciate it. You.