Mastering Instagram Growth | Chaz Wolfe

Watch the episode here

Episode Topics:

• Learn proven strategies for massive Instagram growth.
• Discover the balance between direct response and branding.
• Understand the power of social proof and its impact.
• Hear firsthand experiences of skyrocketing engagement.
• Get inspired by real-world success stories and tips

 

Rick Jordan  

Rick, what’s shaking? Hey, I’m Rick Jordan. Today we’re going all in because there’s a rhythm to what we do. I don’t know if you’ve looked at my feed, but there’s a it’s always like a podcast, real like this. Then there’s a quote. And the quotes are ones that I will typically write, like 90% of them. I actually write those. I do it while I’m eating breakfast every morning, but I post it to my story, and then my team will take that and turn it into a slide into an actual post. And those have been freaking crushing it, dude, interesting, yeah. Like coming from, coming from a story, but then that generates the profile views. But then there was, like, these magic combinations that happened of repurposing some reels from some things that I was thinking about, but then it’s like the quotes. And this was all my team. This was, I mean, they were lining up some of the quotes that I wrote with some of the reels, the remix the reels that were going out, and the remix reels are the things that were generating a lot of the virality, and then the quotes that were posted to the story. It was like the symbiotic effect. It was really, really, really cool. It’s like, I’m sending it to friends. And it’s like, you know, even, even with one point, I think about 1.6 million followers, it’s like that that typically equates to something like a little over 100,000 actual accounts reached per month. Sure, I don’t know if you’ve seen that, you know, it’s a ratio and everything, but it’s like, over the last two weeks or three weeks has been almost 800,000 accounts reached, wow. So it’s like, you go from that and that seven to 8% ratio, which is pretty, pretty standard and normal from what my team have seen, you know, across all of Instagram, like your followers compared to your reach. But then the past couple weeks with this, and your reel was lumped into that, to where a lot of more people are seeing this because of this interesting combination. We’re still analyzing and trying to figure out exactly what caused this.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

And as soon as you figure it out, they’re gonna it’ll change right on.

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s pretty cool. I mean, it’s, it’s great, but there’s a there’s other stuff too. I mean, I should do a, like a podcast on this sometimes, because there’s ways to to dupe the algorithm. You know that I’m happy to share with you, because there’s ways to push engagements, but that works, and it’s cheaper than ads, but then it boosts everything up in the algorithm. It’s like a third of the engagement is bought.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Typically, it’s too much. Engagement ads. They’re not engagement ads.

 

Rick Jordan  

No, they’re from the groups typically, like overseas. They’re groups that have all of these things, you know. So the ones we use are not bots, they’re real people, because you can see stories and everything like that, but you purchase that. And these are sort of like engagement pods that people go to, but they’re sites that they go to. They’re a member, so they literally get paid for engaging with stuff, right? Exactly? Yeah, it might be like a six year old kid. I’m not even kidding, some account on there that just hits the like button or whatever it is, but it’s about a third of that is bought. So instead of buying ads or whatever it’s that which just drives up the right ratios of engagements that we’ve been playing with over time, which is your likes compared to your shares, compared to your views on videos. You know, we’ve been tweaking those over time, and then that, like, honing it in more and more, and then all of a sudden we start to see these results, right? That just like, blow up. So you see, that’s like, great. So we bought, we bought 1000 likes. You know, if you know, if you want to look at it that way, we bought 1000 likes on this one post that got 900,000 views on it, but another 40 something 1000 organic likes because we bought the 1000 likes, right? You know, where it’s cheaper than ads, man, it’s way cheaper than ads. You know, like the amount of money that got poured into that one might have been two bucks. Like that specific post.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

I’m curious, what do you find in because the algorithm isn’t taking just into account the likes, but the the avatar of the profiles liking and so if you got the six year old or the out of USA profile, does that? Is it? It’s showing it to more people. But is it showing to more people that you want it to see? It would be my question. We do see

 

Rick Jordan  

We do see it across the world. So these are global accounts, but when I say it’s a six year old, it’s not Instagram that actually has like, they’re not listed as a six year old on Instagram? Sure, yeah, it’s just a kid, you know, that’s probably got an account that’s listed as an adult, except the terms and conditions all of that, you know, or, you know, it might just be like a 16 year old, a 25 year old, they’re just sitting all day, just double tapping, and they’re getting paid for it. You know, these accounts are across the board. So it’s, uh, from what I’ve seen, it’s kind of been like a, like a 5050, split, because I’ve got it even the podcast. This is, this is, I didn’t even know this until a month and a half ago when my team was looking at the stats. You know, it’s a global 2% show. 51% of the audience is in the US, you know, which is great. You know, that’s awesome. That’s where I want it. But then it’s like 41% is India. I’m not even kidding, you know. And it’s a which, that’s great, you know, it’s not necessarily an English speaking country, but the second language there that literally. Everybody speaks is English. You know, it’s almost like every Indian you come across speaks English. So it’s fine. It’s just as proliferated as, I think it’s Hindi, right, in India. But then language, I start to see the same results in social literally, that. So in like this, in this last month, you can see the split between the US and India, almost the same as the podcast is, right? So it’s kind of, it’s kind of cool, you know, and all of them spend money, so whatever, you know, that’s all good, but it’s a lot of the it’s a cool symbiotic relationship. I haven’t actually pushed any products towards the Indian market whatsoever. Maybe I will at some point, I don’t know, but the the following I have this us. Base does plenty well for me right now, you know, because, I mean, if you’re taking a look at, like, you know, a little over a million and a half followers, I’m perfectly fine with having like, 500,000 of those from the US. That’s good. I’m good with that. It does what I needed to do.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. There’s that same balance that you’re talking about we’ve gone through with our podcast team. You know, it’s like, part of it is numbers for vanity. The other part of it is, you know, like, it actually means something when you send it. Hey, I’ve got 100,000 followers on YouTube. They don’t know that. Half of them are in another country, and that makes them feel a certain way. And it’s just like, Yeah, okay, all right, how do we monetize that? You know?

 

Rick Jordan  

Oh, exactly yeah, right on. You know, it’s like, I hear what you’re saying. Like, for the vanity of it, because there because there is a real thing, like social proof. I don’t know, we’re probably recording already, 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

But this is great. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Cut it up. You know, it’s great, right? Yeah, but it’s, there’s the, there’s the the purchase engagement that I’m talking about, and whatever about the followers. But then, you know, I’ve never done sponsored posts. I don’t know if you have at all, but then you can show legitimately, like, on any given month, like, I can go be like, I am reaching 150,000 real accounts every single month, yeah, out of that, you know, and that that’s worth money, you know, that that’s real reach. That’s real organic reach, actual real people that are out there that you’re able to touch and put something in front of, whether it’s, you know, a sponsored product or whatever. You know that’s, that’s the real number. You know, people don’t see that unless you’re, they’re in your insights. But if it’s, you know, if somebody’s out, like, what’s your actual reach? It’s almost like, Well, cool. Let me take a screenshot and show you my actual reaches every single month, because it’s legit, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

I think that that’s how agencies are moving forward, too, as well. I find myself, you know, almost stuck maybe in the digital direct, direct space, direct sales. You know, I worked with Frank Kern for a long enough period of time to where it’s like, yeah, yeah, we generated leads, but, but where are the sales? Like, you know, we got, we got 14 million views. But, like, did it? Did it do anything now? Yeah, now what, what we’re realizing is that there is this element of that, if you don’t have that, even if it’s partially not the avatar that you’re looking for, if you don’t have it, then other people wonder, like, Well, are you even legit if you’re not having, you know, million views, or whatever, it’s like, man, there’s, this is an interesting game.

 

Rick Jordan  

It is a very interesting game. Yeah, very much. So I’m seeing the benefit now. This is interesting talk, you know. So we’re just having real conversation, you know. I don’t know if we’re gonna keep this in, but if you are listening, this is good talk. It’s, you know, I’ve never, you know, just like the show. I’ve never actually taken sponsors on, you know, and I’ve never actually posted anything for sale on my Instagram account. Either, never done either of those, you know, but from a social proof perspective, it’s like, now that I have a public company, this is another thing that I’ve noticed, now that I have a public company, shareholders go and find me, and then they’re posting in like these stock forums, you know? It’s like, Holy hell. It’s like, we’ve never seen this connected of a CEO. I’ve seen these kinds of comments, you know, but then because of what I’m posting, you know, and they’re like, I’m following him now. I’m listening to his podcast. Hey, did you see Rick’s podcast this week? And these are shareholders and potential shareholders of my public company, that at some point, you’re talking about the real sales, right? They will at some point and have tip to where they’re placing buy orders, you know, on the stock, you know, and starting to trade within my own company, though it’s, it’s been a long time in the making, obviously, but years, you know, and I’ve never sold anything. But still, I think there’s a lot of intangibles, you know. I’m curious, when you worked with Frank Kern too, it’s like, Yeah, where are the sales and everything, but what about the I’m I’m very much realizing the indirect positive effect from having a social presence like this, you know, what have you seen? You know, because you can hammer the sales all the time, you know. But this is what got Cuomo TV producer to call me literally. Was social media, yeah.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

And you’re right. That phone call is super intangible until it happens, right? And so it’s a game. I mean, I guess I kind of liken it to, you know, the difference between direct response and branding, right? Like, what you’re talking about on social media is, in essence, more branding be there. I’m consistent, I’m authoritative. Some of that authoritative is I’ve got a million followers. Who cares if half of them are from something and it’s like, man, to me, I struggle with that, because some of that is like, but that’s not, but that’s not real, but it is, and it has to be, but, and you have to be in a certain position in order to get people a certain think a certain way, so that they even listen to you no matter how good your content is. Yeah, and I realized that is that I have an incredible content myself and or people that I have on the show, but if, but if we don’t play the game, which is, this is what we’re talking about over here, if you’re not playing the game, then most people don’t listen because most people don’t understand. They just see it on a surface level, like, Oh, if you don’t have a million followers, or if you know, the CEO of this public company isn’t XYZ, then it’s probably not that good and it’s just an assumption, yeah, yeah, that’s what we’re talking about, is branding. And totally is. 

 

Rick Jordan  

We didn’t even plan this. We just started talking, this is how good of friends we’re going to become, for real. Chas, no joke, that was on your show, and now you’re here. And we just started talking. We didn’t really even, like, start the show, we but we started, you know, yes,

 

Chaz Wolfe  

it’s yes, I love it.

 

Rick Jordan  

Can we stick on this for just a bit? This is a cool conversation. Yeah, I love it. It’s a it’s the indirect stuff. And you’re talking about playing the game, but the symbiotic circle, because I was talking about the shareholders and all that, but now they’re listening to the podcast as well. So it’s like this circle. And, you know, even though it’s like every public company goes through ups and downs, and downs, and we’ve gone through our ups and downs, we’re fighting with OTC right now, you know, it’s, you know, we actually have lawyers on this thing to where we’re on this but it’s like, the the ones that I see, because there’s those that are out there, literally, like, this was a post the other day on one of these stock forms. It was, fuck you Rick, you know. And I was like, Cool, that’s awesome. But then on the other side, it’s, it’s a, you know, because they see where things are at, and it’s like, they’re not going to see behind the scenes, whatever. It’s like, I can only imagine what some politicians go through, because I’m seeing very similar things. I’m relating it to that. But then they’ll go back and it’s like, Hey, have you heard his podcast this week? It’s like, I’m so glad I held I’m so glad I’m still in this it’s like, I believe in this guy, even though he’s got bumps in the road. But it came back to what you’re talking like branding, even though it hasn’t directly sold anything, but it’s built the confidence up in who I am just by putting out content. 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, well, it’s a humanization factor, right? Like you just said that they have trust in you because they heard you on a podcast. If you didn’t produce the podcast then, then where would they have known that you knew that thing that you were talking about? And so someone like right now might be listening. They might be literally looking up this podcast because they were looking at joining gather in the Kings, which is my mastermind group, yeah, and they searched Chaz Wolf on podcast, and boom, here comes up this, this podcast. And so now they’ve been listening for the last 10 or 15 minutes about us talking about branding, marketing, indirect, direct. And here I am talking about X, Y and Z, and they’re like, oh, this dude actually knows what he’s talking about. That’s the intangible that we kind of mentioned earlier, that you kind of hinted at, that I didn’t really answer your question. I don’t know how many times that that happens on a monthly or weekly or a yearly basis for you or for me, nor will we ever know. You know, it’s just like I remember sitting in a room with Grant Cardone and Frank, and Frank was on the phone, and we were basically like, trying to figure out, like, people clicked here, and then they went here, and then they went here, and then there, and but it’s like they went to YouTube, but then they went over here. But then sometimes, you know, if they really saw that one, then they then those people really like to come over here and watch along like it was, like, this just confusing thing, and then boom, out the bottom customer journey. Yeah, yeah. And so as much as we try to dial it in, right, and that’s where I that’s what I was saying about the direct response, because a guy like Frank Kerns, like, you know, I want, I want to be able to I want to write ad copy. I want to write an ad I want to see how many views, how many clicks, how many sales calls, how many purchases? And it’s all math and and if you can’t do that with your marketing, then, then you’re losing money, except for the intangibles that you and I are talking about, which throws the whole thing out the window. And you’re just like, well, I don’t know how having this works, but it works. And until it doesn’t work, you, you keep you just, you’ll try something different. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, you know, I had this origin story. You know, you’re talking about that too, from I filmed it three years ago. You know, it’s like in this eight minute short film, you know? And it’s a, it’s the dude that I actually made two documentaries with who filmed it, too. He’s awesome. He’s out of between, like LA and San Diego. La Jolla, I think, is where he’s at. So he’s in the California, obviously. So, Cal, yeah, where all the greats are? You know, amazing dude for Docs. And this is seriously, like, one of the things, because we’re along the lines of content, when people are talking about investors, I just had this email the other day, and I, I sent a term sheet to this guy who’s, who’s trying to court investors for me, you know. And, you know, because I’ve got some other things going besides reach out, like, some cool intellectual property stuff, like, you know, Blockchain projects that’ll probably end up being incorporated into the company at some point in time. But he’s, he’s like, No, he’s like, a term sheet doesn’t sell the deal. Rick, he’s like, the sexy factor sells the deal. So send me the best video you got, send me the best pitch deck you got. So I. Sent him the the the origin stories like this is it. He’s like, this is the thing. And there’s others that have found this online, in places that have actually jumped in or done deals with me because they have just watched this video instead of humanization aspect of it, you know, it’s again, it’s an intangible. How do you draw that line? Man, I don’t know, but I know if I were to stop it would really suck for me.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, well, you just, you don’t stop. You just you zoom out and you allocate accordingly. So your business might be 8020 it might be 6040 I don’t know, but generally you need to have a marketing spend or an advertising spend, and you’re gonna split that between direct response and more branding type efforts. The stuff that we’re talking about engagement, likes, you know, boosting, really, any sort of, like, I don’t really know what’s gonna happen, but we’re gonna do it. That’s, you know, throwing up a billboard for my remodeling company here in Kansas City. Most people on a billboard don’t even put their phone number, yeah, so how would I ever, really, truly know? Well, you’re not supposed to, is the point, you know, but you also, but you don’t just go spend your 100% marketing spend on efforts like that. There’s got to be, you know, a balance of both and and on the other side where I can go, Okay, no, this, this $1,000 generated these 10 leads, and these 10 leads generated these two appointments, and these two appointments got me X, you know, closed deals. 

 

Rick Jordan  

You know, timing is crazy on this stuff, isn’t it, man, because it’s a that exact person you talk about the billboard was driving down the highway at that day when your billboard was up, right? Even a certain way? Yeah, exactly experiencing a certain pain. Yep, it’s insane. I mean, those really are intangibles and sales and closing deals is a lot of it has to do with timing. Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s pretty cool how that works out. How do you feel just listening to Alex for mosey, just yesterday on some dude on a clip.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Oh yeah, totally. It would love to have him at one of our events. But he said, You know, so we they tested a 15k same product, 15k 25k, 30k, 50k and he’s like, basically, our results were, we created the same amount of revenue, so we sold less of the 50k but same amount of revenue, more a lot more of the 15k but but more customers. And he was like, for me, I would rather have more customers that I could then upsell and X, Y and Z to. And so he’s like, the point is, is that some people, they want your thing at the 15k and the 50k just more people can afford it over here, you know. And so that’s kind of actually gone against some of this, like very high ticket coaching in the last probably five years of like, for sure, you know, I’d rather have 100k product and two clients, as opposed to all these little bitty 2k clients. And so I think that there’s, there’s valid on both sides, but, but in essence, what you’re, what you’re just saying, there is kind of interesting timing wise, yeah, because, you know, the there are people out there who want your stuff, but today doesn’t work, probably because of the timing or the money.

 

Rick Jordan  

You know, you know, it’s funny. I just noticed something. This didn’t start, but you see this light? Oh, yeah,

 

Chaz Wolfe  

I do. That wasn’t here when, uh, bottom right hand corner, uh, this one right here. Interesting. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s coming from somewhere, but that, that was there before there.

 

Rick Jordan  

Where is this thing coming from? 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

For real, put your, put your hand up there, see if it shadows. Yeah, so it’s coming, yeah, right there. 

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s all you know what that is, okay? This is the reality of podcast production here. I think I know exactly what this is. I think you don’t watch this. I bet it goes away. Here we go. Never done this. Nope, it’s still there. Who knows where this is coming from? Okay? Well, we’ll figure that out later. That just like, start, Oh, I see what it is there. Okay, so outside, there’s a there’s a window that I have here in the studio. There’s a couple windows in the studio, so people walking by through the office can actually, like, look in and see what’s going on. There is a van in the parking lot out there, and the sun’s just at the right angle, and this is bouncing off the windshield. The sun is bouncing. It’s none of the lighting that’s in here. If anybody can see that, can you guys go close the like, draw the shade on that window for me, please. That would be wonderful. I’ve got a that’s funny. I saw that, yeah, and it wasn’t there to begin with. 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

That’s hilarious. Yeah, yeah. 

 

Rick Jordan  

It looks like it’s gone. Yeah? Well, there’s a cloud now. Now it’s shady outside. That’s hilarious, awesome. I saw. It was annoying me. It almost looked like we were starting to tell ghost stories about Instagram engagement, ghost stories about Grant, Cardone. There we go. There might be some. Yeah, that’s right, that’s right. It could be, Well, dude, this is fun. Tell me about gathering of the kings. You know, tell everybody about gathering of the kings. I want to hear about this because it’s your passion. 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Man, yeah, it is. You’re right. It’s funny, I was just talking to somebody earlier today. He was actually wanting me to start a software business. And I’m like, Look, man, I’m all in on this thing. And he’s like, for real, like, you’re all in on this thing, really? I’m like, Yeah, this is my life’s work. And his question was. 37 that’s how old I am. How do you know this is your life’s work? And I was like, Well, under my current enlightenment, my current understanding of what my life’s work is, let me say it like that, is that I’m going to help entrepreneurs win in all areas. And for us, we define that, you know, as as five dimensions, the business and finance dimension we family and marriage, health, physical and emotional, faith, which is spiritual and self, confidence and lifestyle, the things that bring us joy. And my belief is that you and me and anybody who’s listening, not only should we be winning in all areas, but we must, and that success otherwise isn’t success at all. And I’ve just seen too many people, probably you have to, you know, that have the nice fill in the blank and then no relationship with their kids, or, you know, the exit of a beautiful public company and millions, if not billions, and and then die a few years later of a hard tech Yeah, you know. So what is success? I think that first off, we define that all individually, but I think collectively, generally, most people want to win in all areas. And I think that we call winners to the group, you know, because when you step into a room of winners, Rick, you know how this works, when you step into a room of winners, it’s a different vibe. It’s a different video. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yep, the energy in the room just winners, real winners, not the ones that are like, Hey, I’m a winner. Look at me.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, no, people doing big things, you know? And I to your point there, Rick, I think that the caveat there is humility. I just posted about this this morning. Actually, can you have this play where you’re grateful, right? We talk about gratitude in a morning routine, but really what that, what that’s leading me to is more self awareness, right? Self awareness brings gratitude. When I’m more self aware of the things around me, the people around me, the things that I have or don’t have, then I become grateful for what I have or those that are around me. And so that eventually equates to humility. So if you know somebody who’s super arrogant or cocky and doesn’t have the humility piece. They just lack self awareness. That’s typically what it is. And so if you can have that element, but also have this deep burning, driven to win desire, then now we’re talking about a fairly unique individual, and that’s how I would classify the Kings, quote, unquote. Inside of gathering the Kings, there’s kings, queens. We don’t, we don’t. It doesn’t have to be a male or female thing. We’ve got, we’ve got plenty of both and but, but the mindset is the same. What you just said, they’re winners, doing big things, who have this, like, grateful, but not done, spirit about them. They want more. 

 

Rick Jordan  

I love that. And you absolutely can tell by the vibe that they’re throwing off with that inside the room. You know, it’s a there’s been several masterminds, you know, that that I’ve been, that I’ve walked into, probably you too, that you can just, you know, at least in the moment, because let’s be real. You know, I will be vulnerable if you’ll be vulnerable with me. You know, there was probably a moment where I absolutely thought that, you know, the only thing that you should do is, like, promote yourself. Because who else is going to promote you, unless it’s just you, and there’s a true component to that, you know, even things I say the joke, it’s like, Well, Jesus Christ was literally, like the best self promoter ever.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

You know, except for that, except for that, he didn’t, which is, to your point, yes, exactly , you know, it’s his.

 

Rick Jordan  

Was more like a factual statement was, it’s like, I am the Son of God, you know? I mean, that was it. There was nothing arrogant about it. It was just stating it like it was a fact. And I went through something with the Navy SEAL a while back where he was coaching me on some stuff. And I’m like, Dude, I don’t want to sound like a egotistical or arrogant. He’s like, Well, isn’t true. Well, if it’s just fact, and you’re stating it that way, and that’s what made me like, reference it back to, you know, like, Biblical stuff. It’s like, that’s interesting. And I believe that’s what you’re talking about here in the room full of actual winners. It’s just like, Yeah, this is what I do. This is how good I am on it. Maybe I can help you.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, totally. I think that you’re, you know, that that room that you’ve been in where people are from promoting, you know, yeah, the term that you’re not, you know, not the factual piece, but the, just the actual like, you know, I don’t know, you can just feel it like just dripping of like, sales, you know. And I love sales. 20 years plus experience, have 1000s of people that I’ve trained and, you know, there’s, there’s relationships and, and so if we go back to the actual definition of a mastermind, right, chapter 10 of Think and Grow Rich. Napoleon Hill says it’s two or more mines working in harmony specifically to achieve something unique or definite, definite chief aim, and and so what is that? Right? So if the room is to sell each other our stuff, or to, you know, stand up in a networking meeting and give your 32nd spiel of, hey, this is who I am. This is what my company does. And here’s how you can refer people to me. Cool. So cool, but like, that’s not what a mastermind is, right? A mastermind is where two guys get together, even right now on Rick’s show, and just spit balling back and forth. And what is created is something that would not have been created if our two minds didn’t get together. You got it. And so inside of the rooms, inside of. Gathering the kings. That’s what we’re about. It’s about agitation of thought, and it’s about getting people from all different types of players, all different types of regions of the country, and going, all right, if we’re together, something’s going to be created that’s super special, as if we weren’t here together. And so let’s go for that. And sometimes it shows up big and you can see it. You’re just like, whoa. This happened in this room, and it will never happen like this again. That’s happened multiple times, whatever it is. And it happens sometimes in a in a handshake, where you’re at an event, or you’re on a zoom, and you shake someone’s hand, or you pass some information back and forth, and you’re like, for weeks, chewing on that little thing that you got, and you’re sometimes those things change your entire trajectory, business, life, family, you know, the whole deal.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s really cool, how you’re how you’re putting this into perspective, because it’s almost like an approach of contribution when you’re walking into the these rooms or or these handshakes, even just as small as a handshake, because rather than an approach of withdrawal, you know, if I contrast those two things, because, uh, masterminds, as you know, you know, some of them will say, some of them, you know, these, these other rooms, these other rooms we’re talking about, yeah, if you know, you know, most listened to this, but I just did some air quotes everybody you know, those other ones. You know, you walk in and you’re expecting to take something from it, right, you know? And, you know, I can understand that, too, man, and I get it, because it’s like, what’s my return on investment from being here, you know? But it’s more like, what can I contribute? Because the only way I’m going to have a return on investment is if I start with a contribution going in. And if you have that approach of contribution, then it’s like the withdrawal is just it’s almost like the ATM is just gonna start spitting out cash.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

That’s right, that’s right. Well, you have to ask yourself, Rick, how did you learn that at some point in your career, you realize that the more that I give, the more that I get. And that sounds cheesy until you experience it.

 

Rick Jordan  

Well, it’s interesting, dude, you’re talking about, like there was something you said that really hit me hard. And it was when you said, like, this thing that happened, this special thing that happened in this room could have only happened because we were in this room, yeah, not exactly how you phrase it. But then I thought, well, if one person was there without the approach of contribution. What would have happened in that room would have been completely different.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s lack of harmony, which is, I love when you start really, like dissecting the stuff, like I have. I’m just, like, a student of this stuff, but we’re in the definition of meme.

 

Rick Jordan  

Just, oh yeah, you’re doing that. We got to do that. That’s brilliant. 

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Producers like snap, snap, snap, but in all seriousness, right, so, like, it’s in the definition, it says two or more minds working in harmony. Well, what is harmony? I mean, okay, so in the mastermind, whether the mastermind is this podcast, or the mastermind is my marriage, or the mastermind is an actual room of entrepreneurs that I put together called gathering the Kings, it doesn’t matter if there is no harmony, there is no mastermind there. The thing that we’re talking about that gets created. It doesn’t happen if you’re dis disharmonious, you know? So think about that for just a second. Because what you’re, what you just said, is actually more powerful than the principle itself, because the principle itself won’t work unless harmony exists. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, for sure, how do you find that person to see now, now I go to, like, a protective mode, right? As we’re talking about this, like, I’m gonna find that asshole, you know, the one, the one that’s disharmonious in this room, and I’m just gonna take this shit. Yes, yeah, exactly. Well, you’re protecting.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

I mean, imagine, would you, would you allow anybody else into your marriage that would cause what, it’s a great point disharmony, right? So you just, you protect you, protect that tooth and nail. So why wouldn’t you protect your circle? You know, your mastermind, dude,

 

Rick Jordan  

I love it. I can actually envision us, like you and me, on a stage right now having a fireside chat. That’s kind of like what we’re doing today, bro, for real. We just, it’s like we just walked up, you know? I mean, we zoomed up, of course, right? We just walked up, and then we’re just sitting in a couple of chairs, and we’re just having a cool conversation, literally, about everything that we wanted to have a conversation about, like all of this stuff right here. My team’s amazing at coming up with some questions for me. And I don’t, I don’t know how many times I’ve actually gotten any of these questions, but it’s been great people like you for serious, for real, man, it’s just, I love it. It does make a difference. It sure does. It sure does. It’s, uh, I’m so excited for what I think that’s going to come out of gathering the Kings, because I can see your heart and I can see where you are, and I think that’s what has happened today, too. You just, you allowed just an exposure of a lot of things, brother, and I appreciate you bringing that approach of contribution today as well.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Yeah, yeah, man, it’s, it’s the only way to be. I mean, I was just in a lunch meeting last week with an entrepreneur that I’d met locally here a couple weeks before. And hey, let’s grab some lunch type of thing. And. He was asking me about, you know, one of the, one of the biggest mistakes that I had made. And I was telling the story based on a business that I opened out of fear. It was a franchise, the territory that was trying to protect. And I ended up losing hundreds of 1000s of dollars on that deal. And my wife begged me not to I should have listened to her, but I didn’t learn my lesson there. I always listened to her now, but, but in all seriousness, the backwardsness of that was that, you know, it’s like in the moment of me putting that business there, or being afraid of someone else, is because a couple years before that I had been open, I had been vulnerable with some other owners here in the area, and we were kind of mapping out the the area. We, you know, same franchise, brand, and hey, if you go here, then I’ll go here, and we won’t, like, you know, cannibalize each other. And they basically took what I shared with them and started to implement my plan, yeah, like, right underneath my feet. It was pretty terrible. And I’m 2526 going, like, wait a second, like this actually exists. Like we’re trying to harmonize here, you know? Yeah. And so that can, that can make you jaded, which then leads to what, what most people know of in business as like, this ruthless like, dog eat dog, you know? And it doesn’t have to be like that either. And so I appreciate you saying that about me, but my encouragement is to the listener, that whether you’ve experienced the dog eat dog, like I have, or you haven’t yet, it does exist, but that’s not how it has to be. It can be open like this, like Rick and I have been today, whether we have a similar business or not. I’ve had other people who have other groups on my show. I have a guy coming to our next event who runs kind of the same thing, but just with a health focus, like, where we’re like, business and then win in all areas, and he’s like, and then win in all areas. And I’m having him come to speak at our event because, because there’s abundance, is what it is,

 

Rick Jordan  

right on, you know? Yep, yep. I love the phrase that I’ve heard. It was, it’s not mine, but it’s like two mosquitoes fighting over an elephant,

 

Chaz Wolfe  

yeah, but, but here, here’s the problem, Rick, is that most people are so small minded, like a mosquito, all they can see is right here, and they can’t see the whole elephant. And if they could see the whole elephant, the billions of opportunities that there are out there, then, then they would loosen up. They would just just go fly a different part of the elephant and take a take a bite, but, but they don’t. They see the other guy, they start fighting. 

 

Rick Jordan  

And it’s my spot. Yeah, that’s an that’s a great expansion on that phrase. You know, anytime I’ve ever said anything, it’s like, doing a chuckle, and then that’s it. It’s like, okay, yes,

 

Chaz Wolfe  

there’s a part of the story. Actually, it’s one of our one of our tag lines, Rick is sit with kings, the conversation is different. And thank you. That’s what you’re saying, dude, I love

 

Rick Jordan  

it, Chaz, I like you a lot. Dude, I appreciate you being on today, man. I mean, this is, this is phenomenal. This was just a fireside chat today. Brilliant. It’s good. Everybody glad to be here. Go find Chaz. Chaz, I have for you at gathering the Kings on Instagram and YouTube. Yep, yep, and your phone number is 615727,

 

Chaz Wolfe  

I’m kidding, yeah, maybe that my team gave you that I was gonna, I was gonna go right along with you say, whoever that is, give him a call. Yeah, right on.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome. I saw, I saw, I think 615, is Nashville. I was karaoke in with David Meltzer and Michael Chandler, the UFC fighter in Broadway, to bar. And I saw this, we’ll finish this with this story, but I saw this sign up there, and I look at Dave, I’m like, Huh? Psychic readings now, you know, middle of a bar, so I dial it up and everything. And Michael walks over. He’s like, what’s he doing? He’s like, he’s following the number, and he just died, like he was on the floor. It was, it’s fun, but yeah, so that’s probably why 615, in my mind.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

Here’s what you gotta do, though, is that next time you gotta get a real number and you gotta Yeah, like, have it, have it point to someone that you want to play a prank on. You got a buddy that you just want a bunch of people to call share his number? This is looking for me. He’ll be completely confused. Yeah,

 

Rick Jordan  

I’m not thinking of buddy, I’m thinking about somebody I don’t like. I think we’re done. Chaz, dude, thanks for coming on, man. You’re awesome.

 

Chaz Wolfe  

 Appreciate Rick. I appreciate you. Thanks for the opportunity.