Building Golden Geese | Brian Decker

 

Episode Topics:

• Learn why it’s critical to protect your main business before expanding into new ventures.
• Discover how Brian Decker became a top mortgage officer and a successful serial entrepreneur.
• Understand how economic cycles repeat and how to adapt to survive downturns.
• Hear Brian’s strategy on how to scale businesses and never “kill the Golden Goose.”
• Get insights on diversifying into real estate, cryptocurrency, and solar energy.

 

Rick Jordan  

Rick, what’s shakin? Hey, I’m Rick Jordan. Today, we’re going all in. All right. Today, I’ve got this thing, and I’ve got, you know, my team does one sheet in front of me all the time, and on this one sheet, it says that this dude is a serial entrepreneur. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that on a sheet somewhere. You know that somebody labels themselves, or they had a branding team label them a serial entrepreneur. But today, I think we got the real deal, you know, because taking a look at everything that this dude has done, it’s phenomenal, and just a lot of areas, kind of a dude, after my own heart, when it looks like always trying to find the next evolution of the market space and what’s going on. So I am in a place where I’m pumped to have this dude on today. Brian Decker, what’s shaking? Brother?

 

Brian Decker  

Ah, not much, man. Dude, I appreciate it coming out here from Scottsdale, where it’s about 118 degrees outside, so I’m enjoying

 

Rick Jordan  

stupid I was in I was in Scottsdale in June one time for a TV appearance. Man. And I always say this, it’s like, I didn’t know that my eyes could both melt and completely have all the moisture sucked out at the same freaking time. 

 

Brian Decker  

Oh, dude, it’s one of those things where it’s kind of like in Chicago, where you’re at you suffer through the winter for those amazing months that you get summer. We suffered through the four months of the summer, so we finally got to the end of October to May. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, well, that’s like here, I guess I never thought of it that way, because, I mean, how you have to dress in some of the winters here, it’s like you’re both freezing to where you could snap a finger off and you’re sweating at the same time. Yeah, I hope you dug how I introduced you because I saw that, you know, right before we jumped on here, that serial entrepreneur. And, you know, there’s a lot of individuals I’m like, this isn’t even, like, I wouldn’t even call this person an entrepreneur, no offense. Like, not previous guests on the show, because we filter pretty well, you know. But just if you see somebody up on a stage at some obscure event or something like that, like, I’m a serial entrepreneurs. Like, really, like, I wouldn’t even call you an entrepreneur. You’re like a business owner.

 

Brian Decker  

 And it’s funny, because as the evolution of any business, you’re kind of initially labeled as the owner of this company, and then once you start getting to the point, I mean, I’m 42 now, so it’s been, what, 22 years in the 22 years in the space as an entrepreneur, that really what ended up happening is, is you can’t be like, Oh, he owns this company and that company and this company. You just gotta say, hey, you know, I as the as the world evolves, and based on the economic cycles that we’re in, I look at what is going to be the next thing and try to position myself with the right people around me to kind of take advantage of it.

 

Rick Jordan  

Well, that’s it, too, isn’t it? Because I mean, this word cereal, dude, I had no intention of the show going this way, until I saw your one sheet today, for real. But cereal, I mean, if you look at like the definition of it, it’s like one thing after another, you know. So when you’re talking, which is a lot as I said, we’re kind of kindred spirits this way, when you’re looking at the evolutions of the market space and what new might be coming, you should not jump into the new unless you’ve already built the solid foundation before you and whatever else you were, serial and entrepreneur is not supposed to mean like half-assing 20 things. You got a whole ass, one thing, and then whole ass the next thing, and then the next thing, you know, after those are stable, then by all means, be serial, go to the next thing in life.

 

Brian Decker  

Yeah, exactly. And you can’t, like, I got a piece of advice probably about 15 years ago from a gentleman that was kind of, like, the definition and of, like, you know, a mega, mega, mega-producer, and anything he touched, everything turned to gold. And he told me something that always stuck with me. He said, most entrepreneurs make the mistake of getting rid of their golden goose. He goes, you build, and it takes 10 to 15 years of becoming an expert in something to create that golden goose. Then you replace yourself when still running and having that, use those eggs, then you take one out of every eight of those golden eggs, and you invest it into the next venture, and you build that, and then you turn that into a golden goose, and you do that. So he’s like, you spend two years to 15 years building these companies. Do not just start a company and then close it down and build the next one, because you’re not really an entrepreneur at that point. You’re just a guy who starts businesses and fails more than you succeed. Yeah, it’s

 

Rick Jordan  

like going from one job to another, you know, you can only do one thing. Yeah, exactly, dude, I’m glad we feel this way. We both feel this way mutually, you know. So some of your things, man, I mean, right now, right? CEO of solar energy, but also the president, and founder of modern lending, right? And then you get into real estate, then a cryptocurrency investor and educator, which one of these came first in your life? Yeah.

 

Brian Decker  

So, yeah. So the mortgage banking. So, I mean, when I went to school, I went to school to become a CPA and got out of school as an accountant. I went and worked at deliberately

 

Rick Jordan  

way too much personality.

 

Brian Decker  

I showed up in Stocksdale randomly at the time I was in Orange County, and I showed up and I looked around, and I was the only guy with tattoos, the only guy smiling, the only guy with a personality. And I pulled white teeth and I Managing

 

Brian Decker  

Partner side. And I was like, Hey, man, how long have you been, you know, a public accountant for? And he’s like, 20 years, man. And I was like, Dude, I’m a, you know, I’m ahead. I’m a manager. And I was like, Dude, you don’t mind me asking, like, what do you make? Because I want to know, like, if I’m gonna invest 20 years, what is that upside? Look like? He’s like, dude, this year, I’m probably gonna make like 300 grand. And I literally called my dad. I left, called my dad, and said, I’m not being a CPA anymore. He’s like, You haven’t even finished it yet 20 years. Like, the high thing he was talking about was 300 grand. Yeah, I don’t want to do it. So I went into mortgage and this was, like, in 2000 probably four at the time. And when everybody got out of the industry in 2000 you know, eight and nine, a lot of breweries, with a lot of breweries, I just doubled down and grew my business, and then ended up kind of rising through the ranks, and thank God, became, you know, one of the top, you know, two or three loan officers in the country that I after spending time at a lot of really big companies like loan depot and guaranteed rate, started modern lending, built that up, and then really did that. And then it was about four years ago, and I was doing side investing, investing in different trees, but that was my golden goose. And then in about 2021 I spent 18 years in the space and turned that over to some of my partners. I still own it today, but I just kind of replaced myself and then really just kind of built, you know, other businesses kind of off that

 

Rick Jordan  

that’s awesome. Man, I like it that legit is the seriousness of being an entrepreneur, the one thing after another for sure. Man, I love how you doubled down when everything crashed, you know. I’ve got a friend who I had on the show a little while back. Similar scenario, you know. And there’s not many that did that. I mean, I said bruises coming out of that, you know. And now, I mean, I can’t imagine being in your shoes these last couple years with interest rates like the 80s, you know, the did you pull that same card again these last couple years? Just doubled down again? Yeah.

 

Brian Decker  

Well, what I, what I really did was, I think, like anything else, like, I learned the signs right? And I think that’s where when your cycles repeat themselves to a certain degree. So the signs started showing themselves, probably in like early 2021 mid-2021 and so when I started seeing, you know, the Fed started to raise rates, what I ended up doing was really scaled down to drop our fixed costs, way down, put as much as I could on a variable compensation to basically not bleed out, because so many people bled out. And then one of the things that is crazy about the mortgage industry, if you really think about it, is everybody sells the same product. We with purchaser refi. You don’t determine the price of either one of them. Everybody sells the same thing, and then basically the cost of that product goes up and you have no control over it. At the same time, you run a successful business, you make all this money, and then you give it all back, start from scratch, and do it again in every cycle. And so for me, I built it up, and what I ended up doing was is I cut down fast enough, and then I started looking at other industries where it kind of really went into and so obviously I had, like, did a lot of public speaking with, like, you know, Tony Robbins, and did those types of things. So I was really kind of building my personal brand up quite a bit. And then what really ended up happening was, is, kind of through that I saw potential disruption, and what I like to call, like symbiotic verticals. So I think what a lot of people make the mistake of is, when they want to be an entrepreneur, they get into being a mortgage lender, and then they, all of a sudden, decide they want to be an Amazon reseller. There are zero similarities in that. So for me, what I ended up doing was my brother’s an AI and machine learning developer, and was like, one of the guys that originally worked on the open source for chat GBT back in the day. And so he was my, like, tech guy. And so what I noticed was, I said, Hey, I see a lot of disruption that can take place in the energy space. It’s very similar to a mortgage. You get these random door-knocking kids that are unregulated to take advantage of homeowners. They do this. And so rather than getting into the sales side of it, let’s try to get ahead of the regulation, and let’s build some AI technology because the construction industry is still doing paper invoices. And why don’t we start developing a lot of technology? I learned a mortgage can be a great business from a cash cow perspective, but when you want to exit it, you’re going to get one to two times your EBITDA on a multiple when you sell it. So I looked at that in you know what? And I said, Okay, this is great for a golden goose for cash flow, but it isn’t going to end up creating real wealth because of the very low multiple. And so that’s kind of how I learned. The evolution was not just choosing a business because it made me a lot of money, but what was going to be a business that I could disrupt an industry in that was kind of a symbiotic skill to what I had, and then from there, what would give me a good multiple, because at the end of the day, we eventually want to retire, and the valuation of our business is based on the multiple we get for it, not how much cash we make.

 

Rick Jordan  

Sure it is. You’re speaking my language there, because, I mean, with the public company, I’m doing a roll-up, and everything’s on multiples, you know? But when you were talking it’s like, yeah, only one to 2x it’s like a mortgage business. There’s no recurring revenue there, yeah? Which is what? Yeah, which is what? The multiple so low, you know, it’d be like a carpet cleaner going out and trying to sell their business every time you got a hustle for every single job, you got a hustle for every single loan, yeah, as

 

Brian Decker  

good as your last month. And the problem is, you can’t build a moat around the business, because everybody sells the exact same product. It’s not like, you go to one bank and they’re like, Oh, I got a 45-year fixed at 2% and you call the other bank and they got, oh, I got a 30-year fix. No, everybody’s within a quarter percent. It’s like the gas station industry. I mean, Penny’s difference. You really just go to the gas station that is closest to where you’re at when you need gas. And that’s kind of how that industry was. And so you exactly nailed it. So our the big, the big business that we have, but we’ve worked on really the last three years, is really hitting kind of all three it’s a reoccurring revenue model with AI and machine learning built into it, as well as having a technology play. So I get the multiple of reoccurring revenue, I get a multiple of a technology in SaaS, and then I get a multiple on that multiple for patenting certain AI and machine learning. So you just learn, you know, build,

 

Rick Jordan  

that’s a winning combo, man, right there. And what’s beautiful about that, because, I mean, you’re in the energy space, but what you’re talking about can actually be applied. We’re getting deep into business here. I’m glad anybody listening that wants to build a business, right and actually have a mean something, rather than just provide an income, you know, and that’s we could. Dude, I could go on tangents on that all day long, too. Well, what’s the point? I mean, maybe I will go on a tangent with you on this. It’s like, what’s the point of owning a business? If all of it’s if the only thing it’s going to do is pay your mortgage and your regular bills, you might as well work for somebody else and have less stress.

 

Brian Decker  

Oh, exactly. And you think about it this way, the way I looked at it is the only way a business is truly valued is if I can sell that business, and somebody can step into my shoes and have no disruption in that business and can grow it. So when you’re looking at a lot of these businesses where it’s built around a personal brand as a roofing company or as a real estate agent or as a mortgage company. 

 

Rick Jordan  

That was my problem is, well, yeah, like Joe’s, Joe’s roofing, right? That’s what you’re talking about,

 

Brian Decker  

 Yeah, and you can’t do it. And so, like, I built this massive brand in mortgage but the problem was, is, when Brian Decker leaves, so does the business and the reoccurring revenue, so you don’t have something that you can actually replicate, and so you’ve got to build that moat, and then also be able to have somebody come in, like a PE firm, or somebody comes in and is like, okay, cool, we can use our resources for the framework you’ve built and actually grow this business. Because when you build it around a personal brand, and you’re really, all you are is your own best employee, and then you’re doing all the headaches that you wouldn’t have to deal with as an employee. 

 

Rick Jordan  

You were hitting the nail on the head man. I mean, that’s very similar in my industry, right? It and cybersecurity, you know, is where everybody, typically, the smaller companies, anyways, have their IT. Guy, you know, everyone’s like, Oh, but Well, Brian did this personal brand. He’s on social and everything. It’s like, no. What Brian’s talking about here is a human, single, human-centric business. That’s what you mean by personal brand in this scenario. So it’s like, Hey, I’ve got a guy who can do this for you. It’s the same thing, whether it, in mortgage lending or, I mean carpet cleaning, as we talked about, right? Or a dealership salesman in vehicles. You know, it’s built around a single human, and it’s not scalable that way.

 

Brian Decker  

Yeah, exactly because, and it’s a kind of a catch-22 because, as a salesperson, you are taught to build a really big personal brand, and create those relationships with your brand to drive sales, but then if you ever want to exit out of it, guess what? If you basically are a professional athlete, right, versus being the owner of the team, right? And it’s a difference. And so that is what I really learned was, is even though I made. Multiple seven figures for all these years doing loans. The problem was, is I was a professional athlete. The second I didn’t want to play the game anymore. I had a small little pension like that you get, versus I learned is saying, Okay, I need to focus on building a business that it is not centered around solely on me, so that when I want to exit it someday, they’re not like, Well, you got to stay with it for 12 years.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I think we could go one layer deeper. So come on this journey with me here a bit, yeah? Because I think also when you’re talking about scaling, you know, because you did the right thing, I think I did the right thing, you know, to where we became spokespeople for the brand rather than being the brand, and that I also see another challenge to scaling too, with people that work for you or work in the organization, because you mentioned salespeople, but I’m also thinking maybe people on the operation side too, because those individuals, whereas the founder should become the spokesperson of the brand, in order to allow scaling, the People that work for the company, then become the facilitators of the connections. I’ve never talked about something like this before. This is cool. We went this way, man, and it’s and because of that, it’s like if you have individuals that have difficulty if they’re on a service side if they have difficulty delegating because nobody does it as they do, they have tried to build those customer relationships around themselves, which is like a mini version of what you’re talking about here, which is also death to the possibility of scaling.

 

Brian Decker  

Yeah, honey. And I think one of the things that I learned so one of my mentors now is a gentleman by the name of Matt. I own the largest mortgage company in the country, and he also owns the Phoenix Suns. And I had a problem, like we all do. Every visionary that builds a business has a very difficult thing of delegating because we’re like, I could do it better. And he says it to me, I’ll never forget. He goes, here’s the problem. Sure, you’re going to do it 100% as well, but there’s one of you. So imagine if you got 70 of you that could do it 70% as well. So even if they only won seven out of every 10 deals, you have 70 of them. Okay, you have 490 deals. Can you do 490 deals every month? No, you can’t just accept and never let perfect get in the way of a good dude. That’s beautiful.

 

Rick Jordan  

That is the magic number two dude for real, the seven out of 10, the 70% I like the inverse of that as well because it’s, it’s a reality check. It’s like that means and you need to be okay with, if you want to scale, you need to be okay with, they’re gonna fuck it up three out of 10 times. Yep,

 

Brian Decker  

yep. And I think that for me, that’s how I ended up structuring my mortgage. I ended up leveraging it, where I built the brand. But what I did, and the way I kind of facilitated it with all the relation we had, I said, Hey, here’s the deal. I want you to understand something, so let’s just I’ll use it in mortgage and real estate, because people understand I say, Hey, you’re a real estate agent. You’re calling me right now that you need me to go ahead and get this client pre-approved. And then your husband, who works with you, is also calling me up because he needs loan documents out right now and right then, and then your assistant is calling me because they need this appraisal back right now. I am one human being. Which one of the three of those do I choose? Because the other two are going to get sacrificed. Those are tasks the skill is, for me, building the system in place that gives the in and out experience of a repeatable process without me being involved in it. So anything that has a task, I’m going to train mini-me’s that can do that task. So I can do all three of those things, and then whichever one of those tasks requires a skill, then I can step in and train that person on it. And they were like, Oh, that’s cool. I don’t really care if it’s you, as long as it just gets done. And once I heard that, I was like, Oh, my God, my ego is what’s getting in the way

 

Rick Jordan  

of me scaling bingo, exactly. And, you know what? That’s the thing. It’s like, nobody really gives two shits, dude, is that what they care about is exactly what you said, that it just gets done. I mean, going through an SEC audit right now, right? And the audit, there was something there. And it’s like, you know, I was trying to get the exact methods that he was going to use and all this thing, and just arguing, arguing he was right. And at the end of the day, I was like, You know what, I would love to be wrong in this case because that means you’re right, and it just gets done. That’s it. Yeah, yeah,

 

Brian Decker  

exactly, exactly. And I think there’s beauty in that. Like I tell people all the time, doesn’t matter what company it is. I said, Hey, you know what? Just because I’m the CEO of this, please challenge everything I do. Because as a visionary, I see where I’m going in the future and potential problems in the future. The problem is I forget to tie my shoe sometimes when I’m walking because I’m so looking so far ahead. So that’s why, for me, what I learned is I cannot be a visionary and an integrator. What I use is you. I have to get a really good integrator, but he also sees my vision, but he has that ability to be like, Whoa. O’Brien, let me cross some T’s and dots. You stay on the vision. I’ll just sit there in front of you and keep tying your shoes and picking up your money and doing everything, and you just keep going.

 

Rick Jordan  

I love it. I love it, dude. I love our energy, too. I’m thinking, I mean, obviously, we’re two salespeople, because we’re just getting jazz over this stuff, right about this, like, we have been like 120 miles an hour this entire past 20 minutes here. But that’s like me all day too. You know, there are some shows that it’s like, you know, we get, we get nice and chill and we have, we talk about some things, you know, but then others, it’s like, you know, we’re just going balls to the wall. This is how you scale a freaking business. You know, look at our backgrounds. 

 

Brian Decker  

We’re ready to go. Yeah, we should have known our backgrounds behind us.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, right on, man, right on. Brother, why do you do all this? Anyways, you know, let’s get a little personal as we wrap you know, why do you do all this?

 

Brian Decker  

Yeah, you know, here’s the thing is, I think I define people really as they exist in really four categories in life, and I don’t think people choose innately their category that they’re in. I kind of break everything down. Some people just are never satisfied with what they’re doing. And it’s you learn it’s not monetary. You think it’s monetary at the time of it, and what you end up realizing as a visionary is like a number one is like a just-born entrepreneur. You think it’s coming going to be money at first. Then you get all the stuff that you never had, is when you were a kid, like we didn’t grow up with any money. Then you get that stuff. And the Ferrari is boring. You never drive it. You actually want to drive your f1 50, because you don’t want to get bothered in your Ferrari. And then what ends up happening is you start seeing the employees that believed in you and nobody else did. And you watch them make their first 10 grand a month, the next 20 grand a month, and you see their family’s life change. Then you go to that Christmas party and the wife comes up to you in tears and is like, I was able to stop working and spend time with my kid. I mean, I’m getting goosebumps talking about time with my kids and like, that becomes your reason, right? And the problem I think a lot of people have is, and then the next category is what I call the number two. If the number two, they are that integrated, they’re that right-hand person. They sometimes make the mistake of thinking they need to be a number one, and they fail as a number one, and they don’t realize being that number two. Maybe they are not that visionary, but they are that executor, that integrator. 

 

Rick Jordan  

They will make way more money, and have way more joy in their rule of the world is number two, right?

 

Brian Decker  

And I think that’s where a lot of people make the mistake, because I’m sure like you on social I get hit up all the time, Hey, man, I got a great job. I’m doing this and this and this, but I really want to be an entrepreneur. And I always ask him, I say, you know, at the end of it, what makes you want to be an entrepreneur? And they say, Well, money, wrong answer, man. And number two, you’re going to make way more money. And a number two, and then number three, you have your worker bee. The worker bee, you have a quality of life for the majority of your life that you and I will never get to experience like we are in our own heads. We have a hard time being present around our family, we’re unsatisfied a lot of times when people look at us from the outside and they can have a skill, they don’t have any of the stress, and they find joy there. And then the fourth category is they just don’t contribute to society. The fact is, in those three categories, somebody that is a really good worker bee, that that accountant at that firm, or that attorney, that that firm, they will make way more money in that role than trying to be a number one in that role. And I think that’s where people have to look at and really analyze where they’re at because your joy will be motivated in a completely different and you need to be in your lane. And so I know for me, in my lane, like my biggest and greatest joy is those conversations with those wives at that Christmas party they’re doing that. 

 

Rick Jordan  

You know, I love it, man, that’s awesome, dude. I it almost sounded like you had that rehearsed a little bit, but I know, but that’s that’s exactly my point. Is that it just came directly from your heart? When I asked, it’s like, why do you do all this? Dude, I appreciate you. I think you’re awesome. You know, everybody needs to follow you at Brian Decker on Instagram, and also the briandecker.com dude, thanks for coming on today and just spilling a bunch of knowledge.

 

Brian Decker  

Oh, thank you, Rick. I appreciate you having me on, brother. Thank you, man.