How Vulnerability Drives Connection | Madina Alam

 

Episode Topics:

• Learn why Medina Alam believes mental health should be seen as “sexy.”
• Discover how vulnerability can strengthen relationships and deepen connections.
• Hear the realities behind The Bachelor experience and how Medina handled the pressure.
• Get actionable insights on self-awareness and emotional health from a licensed therapist.
• Find out how addressing insecurities can open up new paths to growth and healing.

 

Rick Jordan  

What’s shakin, hey, I’m Rick Jordan. Today we’re going all in. I’m pumped because I met this amazing woman on Instagram and I DMD her. I’m like, You’re interesting. I think we need to talk, you know, and just display this out to the world. And this is the cool part, right? She’s a licensed mental health therapist who appeared on season 28 of The Bachelor, and she’s passionate about teaching everything about mental health and just destigmatizing a lot of things around that. So I’m pumped to have Medina Alam, welcome to the show.

 

Madina Alam  

Thank you. I’m excited to be here. I feel honored.

 

Rick Jordan  

This is so cool. I mean, we were talking a little bit getting to know each other, you know. And you had, you have something that you’re doing right now, because we’ll get into the bachelor and all that stuff, you know. But you were really starting to capture me about everything. You were talking about mental health, you know. So give everyone a little bit of that.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, I’m really just on a mission to make mental health, sexy, like, I feel like, well, I mean, I think when we think of mental health, we think of it as this stuffy thing, like, you know, you have to be crazy when you go or, like, there has to be something like, really wrong with you. You have to have, like, a disorder or an illness. And I think there’s nothing more attractive than someone who can identify how they feel and express it, and also have people in your life who you can do that with, like, whether it be friends, intimate relationships, family members, like, I gravitate towards people that I feel like I can open up to, and I know how healing that’s been for me, and I want to create a space where other people can see That that is like a beautiful thing

 

Rick Jordan  

to be vulnerable, that’s good. And you said something that’s attractive, right? I mean, that kind of goes along with your whole making mental health sexy thing, you know? Because, yeah, isn’t that the main thing today? Because, I mean, you’re talking like 50 years ago. I mean, neither of us was alive 50 years ago, you know, which is good. I’m glad I can still say that you know. But 50 years ago, everything, it seemed, at least from what probably you and I read, everything that we would call mental health today, was pretty much shoved down, you know. And to your point, it was like straight jacket town was mental health, you know, like the, like the insane asylum, those kinds of things were mental health. You know, today it’s a lot different, you know, it’s a broader term, and I think a more evolved term as well.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, well, when I think of mental health, I just really think of awareness, like self-awareness, like when I went to schooling to become a therapist. Like, 90% of schooling isn’t necessarily about theory or, like, application of theory. It’s about learning yourself so that you can be the most stable version of you to help another person, right? And so I think why people shy away from mental health is because we don’t want to admit the things that make us insecure, the things that we’re anxious about, the things that make us sad like it’s scary to admit those things, but I think the only way to get through those things is to lean into it and recognize that that’s part of the human experience.

 

Rick Jordan  

For sure, it is. The vulnerability is important too, isn’t it? Because, I mean, I also think of like 50 years ago, I don’t know, but I had great parents growing up. You know, I truly can’t speak to how vulnerable they were with each other, but on the surface anyway, it looked like they had an amazing, loving relationship. You know, behind the scenes, I don’t know exactly what kind of talks they had and all of that. My dad passed when I was just 16, so I didn’t have a, you know, a lot of time to observe that, especially as an adult, but I would think back to what again, like 50 years ago, where did those deep conversations really happen? Or were people just playing the roles? Because today, I think individuals like you and me are looking more so for that awareness, especially in a romantic partner, you know, somebody who can say, hey, I’m trying to find my shit all the time so that I can be better for you.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, and I think, like, it’s a form of connection, and so like me being vulnerable with someone, and vice versa, like, especially in an intimate relationship, that’s how you connect. That’s why people develop crushes on their therapists, like, kind of regularly, because you’re opening up to them on this deep level, you might not be with other people. And I think at the end of the day, we all want to, we all want to feel connected, and we want to feel like we’re not alone. And I think we all logically know we all struggle in a similar way, but we forget that we don’t really truly feel that because we’re not actually talking to each other like I was at dinner the other night with one of my friends. And I’ll be vulnerable, and I’ll say like I often feel alone even when I’m around other people, and I and we can go down that this is like a separate thing, but I think people assume things based on how they look or what they have going on. And I opened up to her about that, and I was like, kind of emotional about it because I was just not having a good day. And she was like, I feel exactly the same way. And also a very beautiful, successful girl. And like in theory, I know she struggles, but like for me, I hate how she feels. That way. But it felt comforting to hear her actually say, like, I feel that way too, you know, yeah. I mean, about like, the vulnerability and the deepness, it’s like, now I feel less alone and more connected, yeah. And I want to see that as, like, a good thing, versus, like, don’t say that, or like, just, and we can get into that with a bachelor too. It’s

 

Rick Jordan  

funny, you say that my mind was going, I mean, first you talked about, you know, you went back to, like, and I want to dive into this a little bit too, you know, people develop crushes on their therapists. I mean, yeah, you’re beautiful. So I could see why people would do that from a physical sense with you, of course. But then you’re talking the vulnerability aspect of it, you know, how does that take place? And really want to know your perspective as a therapist, how do you handle something like that?

 

Madina Alam  

Like, how do I handle if someone develops feelings, yeah? Oh, yeah, yeah. There are a couple of ways, I think. You know, once you’re in the field, a little bit longer, you get less scared of because, you know, when you come in therapists, it’s like this rigid set of rules you think you have to follow. And I think every person is really different, and it can open up, honestly, a vortex of creating a repair, what we call a reparative relationship with these individuals, because a lot of people who go to therapy, their attachment isn’t the healthiest. So therapy is really meant to be like a re-parenting, almost like you’re almost serving as their parents to model what their parents didn’t model. And so it depends, sometimes I will have to transfer an individual because that connection is going to get in the way of them doing the work. And I usually just ask them straight up, like, do you feel like your attraction or connection is going to get in the way of us doing what we came here to do? And if they say yes, then I’ll explain to him them, and then I will transfer. But if they feel like it won’t, I do want to show them that they can still they’re allowed to have a feeling, right? The feeling is never an issue with anything, not even just attraction. It’s the reaction or the response to the feeling. So,

 

Rick Jordan  

you know, probably the first time in a long time, they’ve been validated, even in their feelings, is in a session, yeah, with you or any therapist,

 

Madina Alam  

yeah? So I think, like, it’s not I like to normalize, it’s yeah, you’re attracted to that, that validation, and so if they feel like it’s not going to get in the way, then, you know, we can work through it together.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, for sure. How did that go on the show? Because I can imagine some of the, you know, some of the conversations you might have had, you know, and I didn’t watch your episodes, I didn’t do my homework that much, you know, go back your episodes. Cringey, yeah, but I can imagine the dude. I mean, you know, did you use some tactics on him? Were you a therapist at that time? You know, they’re like, Oh, tell me more, you know?

 

Madina Alam  

I mean, I definitely was like, Oh, my God. I can only imagine, like, how stressful it is for him because we’re all like, trauma-dumping on him.

 

Rick Jordan  

I real.

 

Rick Jordan  

I haven’t watched it in a long time because, I mean, you were on season 28 right? Yeah. I mean, I might have seen a few episodes maybe like 20 years ago. You know when it was, when it was just kind of in its early years, and I didn’t see much of that. I didn’t see much of that. I didn’t see much of the trauma dumping, but that’s what takes place for real.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, like open you open up. You tell your something really bad that happened, and I get it right, because it’s a Fast Track timeline of potentially getting engaged, so those conversations are important.

 

Rick Jordan  

So yeah, that’s intriguing. Were you a therapist at that point? Or did that happen?

 

Madina Alam  

I’m sorry, no, 

 

Rick Jordan  

I was just you answered the question. I thought maybe it was afterward that you could have become a therapist as well.

 

Madina Alam  

No, I was, I think it was a there’s a lot of thoughts I have being a therapist on that show, and often, reminisced.

 

Rick Jordan  

I mean, I just lost you to like, a zone for a minute here. Wait,

 

Madina Alam  

what do you mean? You like, look down and I don’t know what was going through your head right there. Well, because I’m like, there’s so many thoughts I have about it. I’m like, I don’t know where to start, but I think, you know, just going on the show in general, I probably should have also watched some more episodes my night. And I said, it’s actually last night when my event, I said, because I was, like, really thinking, I’m like, why am I doing these events? Like, at the end of the day, like I built this platform? Well, the platform got built for me for being on this show, right? And I’m like, gosh, am I doing this? Like, the wrong way? Like, mental health is not a sexy thing to sell. It’s kind of that’s kind of where my phrase of like, let’s make mental health sexy. It’s like, again, I’m not selling like a day party or like a like a boat trip, or like a happy hour I’m selling something that’s about vulnerability. And I remember my producer telling me, because on the show, for context, I had opened up about feeling really insecure about wanting to find my person. Like I’m right now. I’m 32 on the show. I was 31 and like, I know I have time, and where the fuck my man at? Like, you know, and I I go on the show like, you can’t date for like, a year, pretty much. So, like, I’m not at this time where I just had, like a year to kind of chill out. Like I personally. I want to get married. I mean, shocking. I went on a show where the end of marriage so like, God forbid I say, like, I feel pressure. My words were skewed, and I everyone’s like, You’re not old. I’m like, I literally never said I was old. People are like, you’re beautiful. I’m like, never said anything about the way I love. They’re like, you have time. I’m like, just let me feel how I want to, let me feel how I want to feel. And this is coming around circle in the sense of like, my naive mind as a therapist went in and said, I think vulnerability is beautiful. I’m on this journey to be vulnerable and help others. Yeah. So my producer was like, no one wants to see someone insecure on TV. I will remember that statement till the end of my life, probably because that is a shocking theme in so many ways, and that’s exactly what’s called Reality TV. It’s a reality. And if I can make an impact from any of this, I want so badly, again, for people to see that like having an insecurity is a beautiful thing, because if you recognize you have an insecurity, you now have a chance to work on it.

 

Rick Jordan  

Isn’t that the first step? I mean, that’s awareness, right? That you can identify that, but then afterwards, I mean, what’s the next best thing? You freaking talk about it? Because the only way it becomes a non insecurity. I think I just made that up. I’m sure I did. You know is, if you actually get it out and challenge it, right to see if it’s even, you know, some, somebody I met always said, like, feelings are not facts, you know. And a lot of insecurity comes from emotion, and it’s something that you might have created or thought is the actual case. But then when you challenge it, it can no longer be an insecurity anymore. But I’m with you that awareness is like the first thing, and then it’s like step two. Talk about it, challenge it. The only way to challenge it is to actually, if it’s a person, go to that person. I think. Anyways, you know, you tell me, You know what? What are the steps? Maybe I’m off. Stop me where I’m wrong. Go to the person and talk and be like, hey, is this this is what I’m thinking. Is this true? And then if they say no, it’s like, oh, okay, well, I guess I was wrong. No more insecurity.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah? I mean, I don’t think ever me personally. I don’t think the goal would ever to be, never have any insecurity. It would just be, try the insecure. Try to let the insecurity impact your behaviors the least. Yeah. So because feelings like will always be valid. We will all, despite what anyone thinks, we all have insecurities. And you will we will all have insecurities until the day we die. Okay, the level that the insecurity is impacting you, though, that’s the important piece. So, yeah, communicating something can give you answers. And if you don’t know that something rubbed you the wrong way, for example, you can’t communicate it to another person to get the clarification that maybe you need. Yeah,

 

Rick Jordan  

that’s the vulnerability you’re talking about. Completely the vulnerability, you know? And it’s like, everybody’s, there’s all these, uh, there’s all these buzzwords, right? And I swear it’s like, over the last year, I think that it was the 2022 word of the 2023 I’ve mentioned this a couple times on the show, word of the year with Webster’s Dictionary was gaslighting, you know? And I swear, like, this year, I think 2024 is going to be trauma, you know, that might be worth everybody’s on this trauma train, like, Oh, my trauma as if it’s like this crutch and like something that’s actually an excuse for whatever. But that’s the opposite of awareness.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah. I mean, we throw, that’s like, a whole separate thing. We throw around the terms all the time, like someone, if one more person tells me they’re antisocial, I’m like, Oh, so you’re Jeffrey Dahmer.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s really what antisocial means. You are the type of therapist everybody needs. Oh my gosh, that’s awesome. Yeah,

 

Madina Alam  

I’m very, I’m very, uh, derived, because the type of therapy I do, too is very it’s not, it’s much less talking, and it’s a lot more doing, which is another reason I do these events is I think there’s not a lot of awareness about, sorry, I’m going off on a completely different topic. 

 

Rick Jordan  

But this isn’t, this is this is interesting. I like it.

 

Madina Alam  

It’s, yeah, there’s just so much research that talking about your problems sound effective? Yeah.

 

Rick Jordan  

So let’s circle back to the show real quick. Because I know everybody loves, loves the show, you know, and I love what you’re doing, you know. I want to hear more about your events in a sec, too. We got on the show, though. I loved when you said, Where the fuck my man? So for real, you couldn’t date or chose not to date for like, a year leading up to the show.

 

Madina Alam  

Well, like in total, right? So we have before we leave for filming. Some of it was my own choice. So, like, the the month or so leading up to, like, me thinking like, Oh, I’m probably gonna go on the show, because things were getting really serious, like a background, just all these things, um, I didn’t want to be the girl that went on the show, and someone then was, like, I was dating her. I have these text messages. She invited me over, whatever, right? Um, so I did last week, yeah, but you know, there’s always that one person that wants to clap and, um, and then obviously, while we’re filming, you know, we’re not dating, and then after, I mean, you can technically date, but it’s supposed to be in private, and I wasn’t really on the type of time where I’m going to invite someone over to my place and call that dating. Yeah, and I just didn’t also, again, want to risk like this person, potential, a person potentially saying they were dating me. So I just waited until I was eliminated from the actual airing of the show. So it was almost a whole year. So

 

Rick Jordan  

that could be, that would be a funny first date, though, wouldn’t it? I mean, if you had chosen a date during that time period before you were eliminated. Because, I mean, the for it does surprise me, how many people don’t know this, but all this stuff is pre recorded, you know, and then they those seasons are released afterwards. So you are in real life, eliminated, but it can be weeks later until it’s actually that episode airs. You know, how many weeks was that for you? Maybe 20. It’s a long time. 

 

Madina Alam  

I really couldn’t even tell you. I have no idea, done reality shows.

 

Rick Jordan  

I mean, it can be that long, from what I’ve seen, like six months at times, especially if they were one of the finalists between,

 

Madina Alam  

I just spilled water all down. 

 

Rick Jordan  

This is real life here on all in, yes,

 

Madina Alam    

I’m like, Zoom is really forgiving. Like, you can’t, yeah, can you see it?

 

Rick Jordan  

No, I can’t at all. Yeah, come

 

Madina Alam  

to my mental health events where I will still walk around myself.

 

Rick Jordan  

I love it. I can imagine, though, my brain goes, and this is imagination, right, to where you’re dating somebody. Ring them over. It’s like, the first day, it’s like, oh, by the way, nobody can know that I’m with you right now, you know? So I just want to have that conversation that’s a little nuts.

 

Madina Alam  

Well, I don’t even tell people now, like, when I go on, like, if they want to call me and find it, that’s fine. I don’t, yeah, I don’t say anything.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s it, except, except me. I found it. I don’t know where it was, but I found it. Like, I need to talk to you, that’s cool. So let’s come back to the to the events that you’re doing. You know, because you, you said you said you just had one last night, right? Can you describe how this goes? Because it’s, it’s obviously not like an Instagram mental health event, like we were talking about, where you’re throwing everybody on a yacht and, you know, it’s a mental health day. Let’s, let’s drink and smoke some weed, and then we all feel better. That’s not what you’re doing.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, I So last night I did one that focus on, like relationships and hormones in particular. But I just kind of, then I’m definitely like, I have an idea, and I just, like, run towards it, like 1000 miles. So I just kind of picked the topic, like the month of so I did one in June. Excuse me. I did one in June for little indigestion. Come to my mental indigestion

 

Rick Jordan  

No, it’s fun. We keep it in

 

Madina Alam  

it’s so June, I did a men’s mental health event because it was men’s mental health awareness. And then in May, I did just a general mental health event where I actually spoke and talked a little bit about my own vulnerabilities and insecurities, even though I’m a therapist and I model and I was on a reality show, and so it’s really just to bring awareness. And then, you know, don’t get me wrong, I love a dirty martini, but like, you’re not making best friends with the person in the bathroom at 2am when you’re all drunk. And for sure, I don’t know, I have a different view on, like, my type of fun, like, last night was so fun to me, and I didn’t drink anything. And I feel like people leave with and this is no judgment on drinking again. I have my drinks here and there, but you can’t truly connect with people, like, under those kinds of circumstances. And like, you know, being at the club when you can’t hear anyone talking, and like, you’re not connecting with them, and I’m down to do that for my birthday. But, like, I don’t want to be at the at the club every weekend, and I don’t, I don’t really want people in my life that are that way, either, and it’s no judgment. It’s just, like, a value thing. So the events are really meant for, like, bringing awareness, but also just bringing people together in, like, an environment where they can leave with an actual friend that they can, like, eventually lean on, you know, that’s cool,

 

Rick Jordan  

like, a safe person, yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s awesome. So what happens at the event? I’m sure you’ve got some kind of structure to it,

 

Madina Alam  

yeah, no,

 

Rick Jordan  

we’re back to my idea, um,

 

Madina Alam  

there’s usually, like, a little like, mingling in the in the beginning. So I’ll have, like, that plan I had, like, a chocuri and donut spread. I’m a huge fan of donuts. I love donuts. Oh, thank you.

 

Rick Jordan  

Thank you. I just had somebody in the office today, like, Rick, I think you need to order donuts for the office today. And because everyone knows I’m a donut fan too, but I feel you. That’s why we work out, right? Yes, yeah.

 

Madina Alam  

So there’s, like, mingling and stuff. And then last night, in particular, I was moderating, and I was asking these two women questions, or experts in their respective fields. And it was also a chance for me to help showcase other people, because these two women, they were like, oh my god, I look up to what you’re doing, the confidence that you have when you speak and like, I want to feel that way. And I’m like, I want to be able to help them feel that way and feel empowered. And it felt nice like to get a message from each of them after to say that they felt empowered, because I think that’s part of it too, you know, and also to like, even like one of the women, she was a licensed she’s a licensed therapist, and she lives in the area. And some people like, why would you this direct competition? I’m like, A, there’s plenty to go around. B, people are going to choose Me or her regardless. Is not going to shy other options away and see she’s an expert in a different area of mental health,

 

Rick Jordan  

yeah? Dentist, yeah. I said it’s not like you’re a dentist or anything like that. You know? It’s a little different. You need the right therapist that you can connect with and be vulnerable with a dentist, whatever.

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, yeah. I guess I never thought of it that way, but yeah, I think so we’ll do, we did like a little Q and A, and then we like giveaways, and then people mingle and they leave. So

 

Rick Jordan  

that’s cool. I dig that. Yeah, typically out of that because, I mean, I think it’s lost with a lot of individuals who are in your role, you know? Because, I mean, I some could look at you almost as like a coach, you know. And there’s a lot out there that want to, that want to have that type of program, like, oh, man, this is going to be great. We’re going to have events. But then does it actually help people, you know? And to your point, the competition, I use the phrase all the time. It’s like two mosquitoes fighting over an elephant, you know, because there’s so many that need help with that. And, you know, if we could just circle back to the beginning a little bit, you were talking on an awareness you know. And I think that’s probably the biggest barrier, in my opinion, my humble opinion, I am not a therapist. I’m just a dude with a podcast that has a public company and all this other stuff. I don’t I’m not a therapist, but the awareness piece, I think, is something that’s sorely missing, you know, and it’s probably, if I had to guess, talk on this a little bit, the awareness part is hindered a lot by ego.

 

Madina Alam  

Mm, hmm, 200%

 

Rick Jordan  

I love that. So is that like a resistance that people have? It’s like, I don’t need therapy. I don’t need to go see a therapist. Yeah.

 

Madina Alam  

Well, there’s so many directions I could answer this in but awareness, when you think of awareness, think of also self-conscious. So like, even on the show, people are like, Why are you so self conscious? I’ve been modeling since I was 16, and I’m a mental health therapist. You best believe I am conscious of myself, right? We we’ve created that to be a bad terminology. I’m glad I’m self conscious. I’m aware of how I make other people feel. I’m aware of my own shit and how that might impact other people. And I think it is 200% an ego thing, because if someone else’s shit rubs you the wrong way, that’s you. I promise that’s not them. So like, I say this all the time, if I’m on someone’s social media page, or if someone says I unfollowed that person because they made me feel bad about myself, wrong? That is your shit. If someone else gave you, like, it’s a difference between I don’t want to follow that person because they post things that I don’t align with with my values, right? Like, I’m not gonna follow someone again. That’s like posting, like partying every weekend. It’s just like I’m not interested in that. Like it’s not about feeling bad, but like, if I see someone doing something that maybe is really great and that makes me feel bad about myself, that’s my shit. And so it goes back to the awareness, because you have to be aware of your sore spots. And like, it’s okay to have sore spots, but I think we’re scared to admit it, because we think it then means we’re crumbling at the seams, or we’re sitting in the corner crying, because even like me saying like, I really want to find my husband, I deeply do, I still stand by that. And also, I’m fiercely independent. I love my single life. There are so many things that I get because I am single and again, wear the fuck my man hat, right? Those few opposite things can exist at the same time. And that’s another thing I think a lot of us forget. Because I think people took what I said and they misinterpreted it as like, Oh my God. Like, I’m saying how I feel. We all came on the show to get married, right? Like, right.

 

Rick Jordan  

So awesome. You said two things that I want to I want to finish us up with here. You hit the nail on the head as far as how to deal with bullying, you know? Because when people, you know, I think you were talking about on the show and like, Oh, you’re so self conscious, you’re like, Yeah, I am. I’m conscious of myself. You know, that’s the best way to come back, because that is bullying in that, you know, if somebody says, Oh, you’re cocky, I’m always like, Yes, I’m very aware of both my strengths and my weaknesses, and I’m trying to discover more of both every single day. Thank you. Yeah, so that’s, it’s the same thing. So if somebody says, Oh, you’re this is like, yeah, I am. That’s how it goes. But then also you lean into it’s like, where’s my guy, you know? And you’re like, I want to get married. And others are saying, Oh, you got time, and all that stuff. I really can tell you’re coming from a healthy place that way, like it’s not, you know, a quote, unquote biological clock that you think is ticking. You know, can you give everyone you know, especially, literally, all the women out there who are in the same boat, the healthy reasons why you’re in that stage in your life and why you’re looking to get married now?

 

Madina Alam  

Yeah, I mean, I, I love, love, like I really do. Like, I think there’s nothing more beautiful than watching the old couple walk down the road holding hands and like at the end of the day, like, I don’t care what anyone says. I hate the statement. I don’t need you. I want you. No, we do need each other, and I think we need to reframe what need is like, I need someone to talk to at the end of my day. Maybe I had a lot of clients that were really. Are challenging that day. Or maybe I just, you know, need to lay on the couch with you, or I need to eat some ice cream, and like, I need to connect with you. And you know, connection is the number one predictor to a long life, and so I want to feel that it’s a different type of connection than a friendship. And I love all my friendships and my family relationships there. They serve a purpose. But I just, I don’t know, there’s, I want to go grocery shopping on a Saturday at 9pm with my man and go to sleep at 1130 like, I just, you know, and I think, too for me, like I’m not, I feel like you have the group of people that are married and in relationships, and then you have the people that are just out, and I’m like, needing those, you know, and no judgment on either end, but it’s like, and that’s part of why I’m creating these events, because that’s my idea. That’s my idea of like, kind of going out and having fun and feeling connected, but it being in a meaningful way. But, yeah, long story short, I’m just a lover girl. Like, I just like, I love, I’m like, porn. You love long letters, like, leave me some Eminem’s outside my door. Like

 

Rick Jordan  

you’re longing for connection. And that is, I don’t care what anybody says that that is a basic human need connection, you know. I mean, it would have been just Adam, not Adam and Eve, you know, if you have spiritual beliefs, you know, if that, if that was the case way back when, you know, one dude flying solo around, you know, or if Eve was great, it would have been just one woman, one woman doing whatever, by herself. You know, we’re placed on the earth to be with other people, to have that connection. There’s no the reason you got it. I love it. Medina, you’re amazing. Thank you for coming on. Everyone can find you. You know, go follow her, because I did. It’s really Dina Lenay, right? D, I n, a, l, y, N, E, E, yeah. Instagram, yep, I love it and LinkedIn, the same thing. You’re incredible. Thank you for coming on.

 

Madina Alam  

Thanks for having me.