About the Episode :
Today we learn about the interesting life of Terry Tucker. Learn how he is fighting a cancer battle, whilst still inspiring people with his words of wisdom. Terry tells his story about how when he realized quitting wasn’t an option, and from there succeeded through the pain.
Terry Tucker has been an NCAA Division I college basketball player, a Citadel cadet, a marketing executive, a hospital administrator, an undercover narcotics investigator, a SWAT Team Hostage Negotiator, a high school basketball coach, a business owner, a motivational speaker, an author, and most recently, a cancer warrior. He is the author of, Sustainable Excellence, Ten Principles To Living Your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life.
Terry and his wife have lived all over the United States and currently reside in Colorado with their daughter and Wheaten Terrier, Maggie. In 2019, Terry started the website, Motivational Check to help others find and lead their uncommon and extraordinary lives (www.motivatioalcheck.com).
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Today we’re gonna be talking about a lot of sustainable excellence. When you get to that peak and how you continue to stay at that peak is going to be one of the things we’re talking about, but even the journey to that, and I know that that’s the thing, right? You always want to get there but then you want to stay there because who cares if you’re just a flash in the pan. What’s the big deal if you’re just a flash in the pan? My guest today is amazing, and you’re gonna want to share this out with three people. I’m asking you to share this out with three people because we don’t promote or sponsor anything. We depend on you. I depend on you to be part of this army to bring a lot of truth to the world. Today my guest has been, are you ready for this? This is amazing. An NCAA basketball player, a citadel cadet, a marketing executive hospital administrator, undercover narcotics investigator, SWAT team hostage negotiator along with a business owner, motivational speaker and author and most recently a cancer warrior. He’s the author of Sustainable Excellence, which is why we’re talking about that today. 10 principles to living your uncommon and extraordinary life. Terry Tucker, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Rick. I appreciate it. I’m looking forward to talking to you today.
Man. I’m excited because with everything that you’ve done, you know and this is the theme, right? Sustainable excellence, because there’s no way that you can stay a good NCAA basketball player, or a marketing executive or a SWAT team hostage negotiator, unless you’re always at that peak level.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, that’s, you know, I look at my resume sometimes and think one of these days I’m gonna figure out what I’m going to do when I grow up. But on the other hand, I’ve been extremely fortunate to work in some, you know, I mean, that marketing job was at Wendy’s and their corporate headquarters, you know, in the heyday of kind of fast food and things like that hospital administration, I worked for a very young CEO that went on to become the president and CEO of Henry Ford Health Systems. You know, I you know, my basketball coaches in college were you know, guys that were my my coach, the head coach is the only person to coach three NCAA division one schools, and be the athletic director of those schools. So I’ve been very fortunate in the people that I’ve been able to surround myself with.
That’s incredible, man, and when you’re talking you were at the market I immediately thought what was it, where’s the beef or something like that was where’s the beef?
Exactly, where’s the beef.
That’s when you were with Wendy’s?
Yep, that’s when I was back with Wendy’s.
Awesome, man. Oh, my goodness. I remember those commercials man back when, you know, watching TV was a thing. You know, now it’s streaming and this is a squirrel to chase but it’s interesting because I think I’m still paying less than cable. You know, I just don’t have the annoying commercials now even though I have like 18 different streaming services, you know, between Netflix, Disney+, Hbo, all the things that are out there. Yeah, man. That was one of the best things you know, and I think people still watch the Super Bowls for commercials these days or even just for commercials and that one of the best men was that your brainchild? Where’s the beef?
I wish it was my brainchild. You know, I mean, you think about I mean, Clara Peller, the woman who used those lines was like, an 86 year old former beauty operator, you know a hairstylist who all of a sudden rose to fame, you know, in the very late part of her life, I mean, so you know, you keep hitting the wall eventually you’re gonna break through.
Love to have her on the show and see, you know, cuz you’ve got 18 things listed out that you’ve done. I wonder if she would be like, where’s the beef lady or something?
She’s no longer with us, but that’s okay.
Yeah, for sure. Oh, I’m sorry. Wow. I didn’t know that. Oh, I guess that would be the case because that was back in the 80s Wasn’t it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Wow. I didn’t do the math in my head, right there. Yeah, it was absolutely incredible. Well, anyways, it’s an homage then. It was absolutely incredible. But with everything that you’ve been through, you know, because even in marketing because marketing is constantly changing. You know, business is constantly changing. Even take a look at this past year and a half. could you still imagine yourself as a hospital administrator over the past year and a half?
No, I really couldn’t do it. It’s interesting to now be sort of on the other side of that being, you know, a cancer patient and having spent, you know, about 10 years of my career in hospital administration and a fairly large hospital, we were 5000 employees, about 1100 beds. So we were a large organization, and just all that you’re constantly having to innovate, what are we doing next, and, you know, I remember the coach of Kentucky whose name Jim Calapari, who talks about, you know, the health of a university you can always tell by how many cranes there are, you know, around the campus, that same thing, you know, when when I was in hospital administration, what do we build the net, we’re building the heart center, we’re building the cancer center, we’re updating our ER and things like that. So you know, it’s constant innovation. If you don’t, you’re, you’re gonna end up being left in the lurch.
That’s an interesting perspective. So if you’re driving by a hospital, just like a college campus, you want to look to see if there’s new construction.
Exactly. What are they doing? What’s the latest and greatest that they’re doing?
Wow, that’s interesting, you know, and I think about the hospital that’s closest to me, and it’s almost all the time that they’re building something. I mean, they’re a top 100 hospital or something like that across the US. It’s always a new wing, a new outlet, building something new Surgery Center, something like that. That’s incredible. So is that one of the keys to really kind of sustainable excellence is constant innovation and always building something new?
I think so. I mean, whether you’re talking about an organization or whether you’re talking about yourself, you know, what are you doing to continue to move forward? I always go back to the Shawshank Redemption movie if you know that quote, you know, if you’re not growing, then you’re dying. So you constantly have to keep moving forward, and so many people in life don’t do that. They just get to a point in it, you know, keeping with the movie vernacular here, you know, Groundhog’s Day, you know the same thing over and over, you get up the same day, same thing next day, same thing.
You’re pulling out classics here but my twins are 14 and they haven’t seen Shawshank Redemption yet. I was probably when that movie came out? It was probably like, I’m 42 is probably when I was 14, you know, somewhere around that time? Yeah. Yeah, like early early 90s, wasn’t it? So yeah, it’s a good time for them. To watch two with Tim Robbins and Morgan Freeman. Man, that was just, there’s a lot of life lessons in that when you look at it.
There certainly is and that’s, you know, I love that analogy of, you know, if you’re not growing, then you’re dying and you don’t want to be dying. You wanna be continuing moving forward.
For sure. Well, that’s a stagnant area. Isn’t it, though, that you just think, Well, I’m not doing anything new right now. You know, I’m just maintaining I’ve heard that concept too. But I would think that maintenance in some way if that’s the only thing you’re doing kind of clashes with sustainable excellence.
Yeah, it does. I mean, if you’re, if you’re just maintaining, I mean, if you think about our brains, you know, our brains are hardwired to avoid pain and discomfort and to seek pleasure. So to the brain the status quo is good. You know, don’t mess with it. Don’t leave it the way it is. Don’t try anything new. But the only way we’re going to grow, the only way we’re going to get better is if we step outside that comfort zone. But as soon as you do that, your brain is going to start attacking you. I mean, Rick would be like if you got up this morning and said, You know what? I’m going to go skydiving, the first thing that I mean, your brain would kick in it would be like “Well, wait a minute, Rick. Oh, hey, the parachute may not open or the plane might crash.” Or all these kinds of things that your brain will put into your mind to prevent you from doing that.
But again, the only way you’re going to grow, the only way you’re going to get better is if you step outside that comfort zone and I always tell people, you need to do one thing every single day that makes you uncomfortable. That makes you nervous. that potentially could be embarrassing for you. Because if you do that, when the really big things in life come around, you’re going to be able to handle those. You’re going to have the attitude, you’re going to have everything you need inside you to make sure that you conquer whatever’s in front of you.
That’s interesting because I think back on my life and I can’t really think of any scenario to where I’ve been comfortable where I’m at. Is there a place and this is a deep question for you. Is there a place where you can go too far in constantly trying to reinvent and innovate yourself? Is there a threshold there to where it crosses to being unhealthy?
I mean, that’s a great question. I’ve never thought about it that way. I’m sure there probably is, you know, we always talk about, you know, pushing the limits and things like that. But I mean, we’re human beings. There’s a point in time where, you know, your body just can’t do any more whether it’s age or disease or whatever, whatever that is, but that is so far down the road. I recall a study I read about back in the 1950s that was done at Johns Hopkins, where a professor took rats, and he put them in a tank of water that was over their head, and he wanted to see how long they could tread water. So, he put them on the water and the average rat was about 15 minutes and just as the rats were getting ready to drown he pulled them out, dried them off and let them rest for a while and then put them back in that same tank of water. The second time around, on average, the rats treaded water for 60 hours.
Think about that. 15 minutes the first time this is the best I can do now I’m going to drive the second time 60 hours, which tells me two things. One, the power of hope in our lives, that we always have to be hoping for something better, that there’s always something on the other side of whatever pain we’re going through and to how much more our bodies can give to ourselves than we ever thought that they could do. You know the Navy Seals talk about their 40% rule which kind of dovetails with this story that you know, if you’re at the end of your rope, you can’t do another push up or run another lap or you know or swim another mile. You’re only 40% of your maximum and you still have 60% left to give to yourself. So if you ever get to that point where you think, “Oh, I can’t go on.” Trust me, your body can do a whole lot more than you think it can.
Man, that’s incredible. That’s just encouraging because you think about those individuals who may be feeling like they’re up against the wall, you know, almost like there’s no way out but they’ve already had, you know, maybe even just super recently just an experience to where it almost broke them. Like that rat, right. So were they almost broken but then all of a sudden they get past that scenario, you know, to where they felt like they would have lost their mind or lost, you know, maybe even physical harm or something like that, you know, drowning, just like the rats, and then it comes to the point where it’s like that one moment is over. It’s like wow, I survived that. That means that whatever I have to do now, I sure as hell I’m going to get through that. It doesn’t matter the amount of time or endurance that it can take because I just survived something pretty horrible, right?
Yeah, exactly. I’ve always said everything we need to be successful in life is already inside us. We just need to find it, pull it out and use it to our advantage. So I’m just amazed, I mean, I’ve had a nine year battle with cancer where I’ve had my foot amputated and last year I had my leg amputated. And you know, I had a nurse recently ask me, you know, what was that like, and you know, and it was terrible. I mean, I’m not gonna sit here and tell you this, you know, it was great. But I recall back to I believe it was again, we’ll go back to the 90s Let’s go a little Ostalgie again, you know, back to the 90s when Jim Valvano, the coach of North Carolina State, won that award at the SPS of the ESPN Entertainment Awards for courage as he was dying with cancer.
Then I remember him saying, you know, cancer can take all my physical faculties, but cancer can’t touch my mind. It can’t touch my heart and it can’t touch my soul. I didn’t understand that back in the early 1990s. I understand that today. You know, losing my foot, losing my leg. You know, I started a joke with my orthopedic surgeon. They just sort of piecemeal Me To Hell one body part at a time. You know, it’s like, there’s a foot here’s the leg. Here you go. You know, but it really is true that this is not who we are, you know, this physical body is just a house or a vessel or whatever you want to call it. Our hearts, our minds, our souls. That’s who we really are. And those are the things that we should nurture. Those are the things that we should grow and develop. Because if we do that, we can do anything we set our minds to.
Yeah, so what are some very applicable principles to that? Because you and I mean, we’re talking, you know, we’ve had some hard hitting questions already, but we’re kind of talking about just sort of, if I put myself in the shoes of someone who’s listening right now, and they’re probably thinking, “Wow, Rick and Terry, you guys, that sounds wonderful.” But what do I do today? Well, you know, and I’m sure you probably get into this in your book right with your 10 principles to living uncommon and extraordinary. It’s like how do I start that to actually make that real? Because right now, it sounds great, but how does that become real?
I guess, even before I get to the principles, let me give you what I’ve come to know. For me, it’s my four truths. And these are just things that are like the bedrock of my soul. I know that I’ve learned over this nine year battle with cancer and I have them on a post it note here in my office, I see him every day multiple times a loved one sentence each and I’ll give those to you. Number one is you need to control your mind or your mind is going to control you. I can’t tell this from looking at me, but I’m six foot eight inches tall, and I played college basketball at the Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina. But when I was 15 years old, I had a couple knee surgeries that were pretty severe, and I remember when I went back playing my mind was putting all these negative thoughts in my brain. It’s like,“You’re probably a step slower or college coaches aren’t gonna want to recruit you to play.” I’m like, “Wait a minute, I’m still playing at an elite level and coaches are still contacting me, contacting me about playing for their universities!”
So I had to switch that narrative into “No, wait a minute.” There’s something positive on that side. And if you think about it, you know, we get 60 to 70,000 thoughts in our brains every single day that we do, you know, I mean, how can we find those negative thoughts and flip them? It’s not easy and it’s not going to happen overnight. But if you think about it, your mind can hold one thought at a time. Why would you want to make that a negative thought? So that’s, that’s the first one. The second one is that we need to embrace the pain and the difficulty that we all experience in life and use it to make you a stronger and more determined individual. You know, pain is inevitable. We’re all going to experience pain in our lives, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, cancer pain like mine. It could be you flunk a test at school or break up with your boyfriend or girlfriend or you know, don’t get the promotion at work that you think you deserve. Pain isn’t inevitable.
Suffering, on the other hand, suffering is optional. Suffering is what you do with them. Hey, do you take it and use it to make you a stronger and tougher and more determined individual? Or do you wallow in it and want people to feel sorry for you? You know, it makes you feel sorry for yourself. Now, you know, you know you’re looking at me there’s no s on my chest. I don’t have a cape. So you know, I’m a human being. I have bad days, I know, I cry, I feel down, I feel depressed. I just choose not to stay that way, and I’m telling you right now, whether you choose what or whether you decide to wallow in it or whether you decide to use it to make you stronger. That’s a choice that only you can make.
The third truth is more of a legacy truth. And it’s this, what you leave behind is what you weave in the hearts of other people, and I just put that in there because I think it’s important for all of us to think about the end game in our life. You know what, what our ancestors say about the lives that we live, what are people going to say about you at your funeral? So I think that’s something we all need to consider at some point in our life because inevitably, we’re all gonna die. So the problem is everybody dies. Not everybody really lives and then the fourth one is pretty self explanatory. As long as you don’t quit, you can never be defeated, and I know my pain is going to end someday you know it man through surgery, man through medication, quite frankly, it may end when I die. But if I quit, if I give up, if I get into pain, pain will always be a part of my life.
It’s intriguing how these truths have to do with the cancer battle that you’ve had so far that you’re still fighting right now because that isn’t necessarily something that well. It isn’t something that you can control. You know, it’s just something that you have, and I’m thinking of the correlation between, there is no you don’t have a choice as far as whether to have cancer or not. You know, but you have the choice as far as how it affects you, how you embrace it, how you view it, what you decide to use it for. Which is awesome because you’re on the show right now. There’s so many others that are in situations man to where they do have a choice to be in that situation or not. I compare that to how you look at that because you’re sitting here and dude, I commend you. Because the truth you’re just saying, you know, they may have cancer, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually, I’m not gonna let it beat me. I’m embracing it.
I mean, I just won’t let it and you know, I got these, you know, we’re talking about the book and I’ve got these 10 principles. It’s always great for me as an author because when somebody reads the book, there’s always one print. Yeah, kind of jumps out at them. You know, this is the one that resonates with me. The one that, that I like the one that I sort of gravitate to, is this and each principle is a chapter and it’s and it’s this most people think with their fears and their insecurities. Instead of using their minds. I know I’ve done that in my life. I know I’ve wanted to do something, and it’s like, “Oh, this is a little scary,” or, “What are people going to say about me?” Or, “I may embarrass myself if I do that.”
Well, then I don’t do it. But your mind says “No you should do that. That’s a good thing for you. That would be something positive that you can do and you should do.” I think we all do that from time to time, and I always say when I talk to young people, I always say, “If there’s something in your heart, something in your soul that you know you should do or that you want to do, and it scares you. Go ahead and do it, because at the end of your life, the things you’re going to regret are not going to be the things you did, they’re going to be the things you didn’t do, and by that it’s going to be too late to go back and do it.”
That’s incredible, man. If I look at those that have a choice, you know what I’m curious about what you would have to say for those that have a choice to stay in their situation or change their situation. If it’s a job, if it’s a relationship, if it’s a, you know, a basketball scenario that they have or anything, a career choice, whatever, and it’s almost an this is just like straight truth right now, you know, because again, you don’t have choice for the cancer that you have. But it’s almost like if, if that person is making a choice to stay in that situation, then they’re almost saying, “Hey, I want cancer, chop off my leg.” Whereas you are choosing even in the midst of not having a choice, dude, you are choosing to live which is absolutely incredible versus somebody else that doesn’t have that situation where they do have the choice and yet they’re still choosing to die. It’s an interesting comparison here, you know, cuz I love how you are saying, You know what, who cares about this thing that I didn’t have control over? You’re still going through life and you’re using it to help inspire other people. Your heart is incredible. I mean, it’s like I see you and almost see you right now too and just see like this thing that’s like a big and red and pounding hard man because it sounds like a passion of yours as young people to is it?
It is I spend a lot of time or, well, I used to before COVID You know talking with with young people and things like that and you know, we get in all kinds of issues with you know, body image and and suicide, bullying and you know, all the ugly parts of it. There’s a Native American Blackfoot proverb that I heard years ago that I love that I’d like to pass on to you and your audience, and it goes like this. “When you were born, you cried, and the world rejoiced.” Live your life and this is the important part, live your life. It’s kind of like what you’re saying, live your life in such a way so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice. That’s what I want for myself. That’s what I want for my life. Death is not so scary for me because I found my purpose in life, and I lived it. Again, we talk a lot about, you know, your purpose is your job. Well, your purpose doesn’t have to be your job. Your job can be over here. It’s what you do to pay the bills. That’s your purpose is to write or to paint or to volunteer or whatever. Your purpose in life is. But it’s important that you search for that purpose with an open heart. Because I think if you do, eventually you’re going to find it, and when you do, you’re gonna be so much more fulfilled.
For sure, man. I love your approach on these things. There’s so much that applies to this with what you’ve done. You know, I almost feel like we might need a second episode at some point to talk about the undercard covered narcotics investigator and SWAT team hostage negotiator too. You know that, that those young people and if we want to call them young people, my favorite age demographic is ages 18 to 24 You know, right in there and I’ve always looked at it this way because it’s almost like when you’re when you’re teens still, and you still have rules and laws that are imposed upon you by society, not to mention that you’re still living with your parents, or you know, 99.99% of kids in that age are still living with their parents or a guardian, whatever it is, and they still have this societal checks and balances system that exists.
Then you get to where you’re 18 and all of a sudden you graduate from high school, and you’re expected to figure out the rest of your whole life of about three months, and make all these choices and decisions to where you’re setting up the next 50 years of what you’re going to do. Yeah, and I’ve always said, you know, who cares? Slow down, live a little bit, you know, because these choices in life they’re hard choices. You know, and listen to guys like Terry, right? Here, because, dude, you’ve been through a lot of stuff, man, you know, and there’s some amazing choices that you’ve made and probably some mistakes along the way I would venture to say, you know, otherwise you wouldn’t be the guy that you are today, but I love this age group because there’s so much pressure that’s put on this age group, and there’s so much that society expects them to figure out pretty much overnight. What do you say to them, you know, with these pressures that they have?
Yeah, I know, believe it or not, I know I’m all but I was that age at one time and, you know, I remember, you know, I went to, you know, live with my parents, and then here I got to get a college scholarship to go from Chicago to Charleston, South Carolina to play basketball at the Citadel.
You’re from Chicago, right?
I am. Yes, that’s right. You know, and you know, at the time the Citadel was an all male Military College I mean, I did three knee surgeries in high school, you know, here I am, you know, doing all this marching and all this kind of stuff, and eventually, I got to the point where I was like, “No, I’m done. I’m gonna quit.” I’ve never quit anything in my life. I am literally walking over to the Fieldhouse to tell the coaches, I’m leaving, I’m giving up a full scholarship to college because I’m so in my head. I thought, “You know what, I’m going to stop at the Student Union and see if I got an email.” I had a seven page, handwritten letter from my father, father never written me a letter in my life, basically saying, how you know, I take this letter, and I grew up literally to the nosebleed seats, you know, in the field house, and I’m sitting there and I rip it open and I start reading, and my dad is, you know, we’re so proud of you. I love you. You know, you’ve overcome all these knee surgeries, bah, bah, bah.
Then he kind of hits me in the face. He’s like, you’ve called home seven times. Since you’ve been down there, and not once. Have you asked about how anybody at home is doing? Not your girlfriend, not your mom, not me, myself, your brothers, nobody who is so in your head that you can’t see the big picture here. You can do this, and literally I’m up in the nosebleeds. I’m crying like a baby reading this letter, and, you know, it’s kind of like what you just said, for the first time in my life. I had to make a decision. I could walk 50 feet down to the coach’s office and quit or I could dry my eyes and go back and try to, you know, do the best I could for the next four years and graduate from college, and I was the first person in my family to go to college.
So you know, there was so much more pressure put on there as well. And that was the first time in my life that I’m like, this is an adult decision, and I have to make it and back then there were no you know, let’s take a gap year or something like that. It was Bang Bang go right into it. Yeah, right on. Yeah, no, and so I just think kids today again, it goes back to Yeah, you know, there’s a lot of pressure on you. But I’m telling you right now you can handle that pressure if your priorities are in the right place, and you know, again, I always go back to what team sports taught me. Team sports taught me to be part of something bigger than myself and you know, you knew if you didn’t do your job, not only were you letting yourself down, you’re letting your other teammates down, your coaches down, your fans down, your parents down, and if you think about it, the biggest team game we all play is this game of life. And you know, in this attitude of what’s in it for me, that’s the wrong thing to be asking. It’s not about you. It’s you know about you getting us nowhere, us together. We can do anything we set our minds to.
I love that brother. I’m with you aren’t that I played baseball for nine years and you bring it full circle back to Wendy’s. My first job was at McDonald’s, too. Talk about a team sport. Trying to pump out all those burgers man. It was incredible, but I appreciate your attitude towards the next leaders. of our generation and that’s how I always see them. You know, and you’re talking about you didn’t have a gap year or anything when you went to college. You know, you were the first one in your family right from what you said. Yeah, I was one of the first not to. So I had the opposite form of pressure. Still pressure.
Yeah, but you know, I look at it now that I mean, there’s a lot of pressure. I mean, our daughter is a graduate of the Air Force Academy and as a lieutenant in the new branch of the military, the Space Force. There was this, this pressure on the kids at her school that, you know, you’ve got to go to college. You’ve got to do all this. You don’t have to go to college. I mean, maybe you’re good at a skill trade. Maybe you’re great as an electrician or a plumber or something like that. You know, don’t think that your life is defined by I’ve got to go to school. I’ve got to go to college. There are a lot of really, you know, supposedly intelligent people. That is incredibly ignorant, you know, in life. I’m sure we both know, we’ve run into them a long time. So, you know, again, find out what your purpose in life is. Be open to that with your heart. If you do that, you’re not going to go wrong and you’re not steered in the wrong way. Do what you feel is right for you. And if you’re happy doing it, that very well may be your purpose.
Awesome, man. As we pull this to a close, can you tell me a little bit about the type of cancer that you have?
I have a rare form of melanoma that appears on the palms of the hands or the bottom of the feet. There’s about 5800 people or so in the US that get this form of cancer every year. So it’s really incredibly rare. It’s one of those things where, you know, a couple of summers ago I ended up having genetic testing of all ADH genes the doctors either know for sure or suspect caused all different forms of cancer, and I have no mutations in any of my genes. Which begs the question why, and my doctor can’t tell me why. So I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about the why. I just have to live with it and do the best I can.
That’s a good life principle too. Isn’t it? Because this whole why question two when it comes to bad things in your life, you know, the why, you know, remember Simon Sinek right, you know, determining what the why is in your life, and I think that’s important, but that’s going forward in life. You know, when you’re looking in retrospect, and asking why. It’s almost like this innate thing that we have as humans to try to find closure.
Or to find blame.
Oh, there’s a truth bomb right there.
Yeah. Our teachers our status in life. Yeah. The world owes us nothing. If you want something in life, go out and find it and go get it.
Dude, that’s amazing. I really appreciate you being on today, Terry, because this has been a super fun conversation and just incredible and I hope we do have a demographic that’s in the 20s that’s pretty much our biggest demographic. So everyone listening, go to Terry’s website and motivational check.com and see everything that he has because he’s got an amazing book and you’ve heard of him today. Just absolutely incredible human. My man, Terry, thank you for being on brother,
Rick. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.