About the Episode
I had the honor of hosting Cheryl, a remarkable individual whose life story is nothing short of inspirational. Cheryl, a survivor of a harrowing kidnapping experience, shares her transformative journey from enduring trauma to becoming a powerful voice in major media. Her story is a testament to the incredible resilience of the human spirit and the profound impact of sharing one’s truth. We delve into how Cheryl harnessed her experiences to help others overcome adversity and how she’s now empowering mission-driven experts to reach millions through major media. This episode is a masterclass in turning life’s darkest moments into a force for positive change and global influence.
About Cheryl
Cheryl Hunter is a bestselling author, speaker, and media personality who shares her message worldwide on outlets including People Magazine, Goalcast, Dr.Phil, NBCNews, Dr. Oz, CNN, Fox, PBS, and more. Cheryl didn’t set out with a message to share, but while traveling abroad as a teenager, she was kidnapped and held captive by criminals who eventually left her for dead. Cheryl survived this life-changing event and used her experience to help people rise after adversity. Today, in addition to writing and producing for HBO, CBS, Paramount Pictures, and NBC, Cheryl helps established experts become world-renowned by leveraging the power of major media.
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Episode Topics:
- Discover how to transform personal adversity into a global mission.
- Learn the power of authentic storytelling in major media.
- Gain insights into overcoming trauma with resilience and courage.
- Be inspired by Cheryl’s journey from victim to influential media figure.
- Understand the impact of giving a voice to your personal mission.
Rick Jordan
What’s shakin, hey, I’m Rick Jordan today. We’re going all in. I don’t have a bio for you in front of me. I have a lot of notes about you. I’ve looked you up, of course, and my team put some great stuff together. So the 14th…
Cheryl Hunter
Rick Jordan, yeah, no, God, not life coach God. No, that’s like 20 years old. No, no, no. No, I was like, Yeah, somebody. Yeah. I was like somebody Yeah. helped me create that years ago. They were like you should that’ll help you get into media,
Rick Jordan
no money.
Cheryl Hunter
I help people get mission-driven experts to gain an audience of millions through major media. Nice. Okay. They can change the world. Now. I got into that. Because I’d gotten my own message out to the world. Yeah, yeah. I was kidnapped as a teenager and found a way to help people overcome adversity and were like, I want to share this with the world. And it took me a decade and I thought, Aha, I gotta help. There are other people out there. I was a network TV writer at the time. So I was connected to major media and thought that it was impossible. People don’t stand a chance without somebody on the inside showing them the ropes.
Rick Jordan
Do you get that? Right. Are we recording everyone? Are we? Good? Then we’re gonna Well, we started there we go.
Cheryl Hunter
This is how this rolls. Let’s go back to the beginning there. No, no, no. I
Rick Jordan
mean, this is great. It is for real. I mean, we’ll start at the right time. But everybody’s listening. This is how things are amazing. When really amazing guests come on, like Cheryl. We’re just talking Jordan, thank you. For real, it’s like Cheryl’s a pro. We already get that right. We’ve already got this going. So we’ve determined that she’s not a life coach. Like I want to death coach. That’s funny. It’s sterile. Yeah. So here’s, here’s what I have on you. Right? But I love how you’re describing yourself already, right? Four times TED Talk speaker right, which is amazing. That’s incredible. You were talking about your story. You also we have your your your one-liner, which is so well crafted. It’s amazing. You know that helping people send their message, I’m gonna paraphrase. I’m gonna screw it up. I’m really gonna screw it up. But the parts that I grabbed out of it are like, especially at the end, like getting your message out there through major media. It’s using major media as a tool to help get your message to millions. It’s phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. Thank you. We’ll talk a lot about that today. Because Okay, good. I do a lot of major media, too. I don’t know if you Googled me.
Cheryl Hunter
Sure. Do. I know I was like, first of all, how in the hell did you get on the CW? But still, I was like the balloon Berg’s and the news, Max’s and Fox. And a kicker when I wrote network TV, I thought, and I’ll say this later, but media has such a power to impact our collective narrative, and what if we used it for good? Yeah, so that became my whole mission.
Rick Jordan
I enjoy that. That’s one of the biggest parts I love about doing major media, and I can tell the same with you because I saw some of your clips. And you’re not the typical guest. It’s very similar to me. It’s like they’re expecting I love it in my industry, like with tech, you know, because I’ll do political talks and all of that too. But in my industry, this is exactly how I show up on Bloomberg and The Fox everything on my blog t-shirt. They love the interaction, but at the same time, I’m not the guy that the tech with the cybersecurity coming to that comes out with a big ol frickin MUFE. Headphones. The gaming microphone, you’re the same way. You’re very authentic. You were you when you showed up on media that had taken some time
Cheryl Hunter
I am a cowgirl from Colorado. To Hell, I grew up you know, I grew up, mucking out stalls. My dad was like, if you get you know, he would just always say if you get your head on crooked, nothing will straighten it out, like standing out in a paella. Horse. I don’t know what words say here.
Rick Jordan
But you know, you can say anything. In my last show, I dropped an F-bomb. It was unexpected, but it just happened. And there it goes. Well, event. Yeah, it was yeah, it was just one of them. Right on one. It was very powerful focus. Right. Bring the goal line like that. Yep. I’m sure everyone asks you this and you want to major in media obviously right? And you use your message your very unique message about being abducted when you’re 18. And was that the catalyst because we don’t have to dive into that? I know you’re open to talking.
Cheryl Hunter
No, we can dive into that. I think it is without the frame of that. It’s like, well, you just wanted to be on TV. That’s a good point. Know what I mean? It’s like Why?
Rick Jordan
Yeah, it’s shifted over the years, though, of course, your message has because now you go on because you have a message to get out, of course, that was your original message. But now you’re helping others do the same thing. Right?.
Cheryl Hunter
Right. I realized, man, we could, we could change the entire world by getting people who’ve got something to say and want to help people and an audience of millions.
Rick Jordan
Yeah, I love that. I love that there was one time I was on Newsmax it was I think it was two years ago, they were talking about the Instagram algorithm. And it’s because there’s points to where you get to in media to where it’s, it’s exactly what you’re saying, you’re gonna get your message across. Have you noticed that they bring you on for a certain reason? And then but you go on, and it’s like, you just can’t be that mask person who they want you to be. And that had to have taken some time to I mean, it was fun, because I went head to head with Bob Sellers on Newsmax, while it was trying to get me to speak against big tech over the whole Instagram algorithm. female body shaming thing? Yeah. And like three times I danced around his question because it’s a very political, charged, politically charged question. And then last, I was like, All right, Bob, I laughed, I literally laughed. Like, if you want to go there, we’ll go there. And I’m like, What about responsible parenting? Bob? Can we talk about that? Can we talk about building your kid’s self-esteem and self-worth their whole image of themselves first, so that this doesn’t affect them? I don’t think big tech hurts, you know, has a hand in that. It was it was fun for me, because I actually got to be my authentic self in front of what you’re talking about literally millions, you know, the ratings on that was like 3.7 million viewers on that segment. I was like, Man, this literally can change the world. Like you’re talking
Cheryl Hunter
Yes. And that authenticity that you’re talking about. Nothing creates an authentic connection. Like when we speak from our authentic core, you know, heart to heart, people are moved by that. It’s a visceral abyss, visceral, visceral, palpable response that we have to something like that true authenticity, amongst the sea of surface level, inauthentic platitudes that are out there somebody who’s truly being authentic, like you without like, going, alright, we’ll go there.
Rick Jordan
It was fun to dance around at first for you, you. I’m gonna dive deep. Do you remember the first time you told your story, like the very first appearance that you had? Can you walk me through like literally how you were feeling in those moments? Because you can get practiced at it, you know, you figure like your 10th your 100th Right? It comes out more fluently. You feel it every time but it had to have been a unique experience that very first time you told it.
Cheryl Hunter
It was a unique experience. The first time I told that and what was kind of interesting was I told it, I was on a film set and telling it privately kind of putting out of my mind that I was saying this to what would be ultimately a large group of people. So what happened was, after I was kidnapped, one of the ways that I survived I was a teenager. And we don’t have the I don’t know the acumen the savvy at that age to really deal with oftentimes that with which we’re faced and so for me, the best way I could come up to deal with it was just pretend it didn’t happen. And that only gets you so far. I would say to my mom, I’m really depressed and she’s and yet I didn’t tell her what happened. And she goes, do you mean board? And I’m like, no, no, no, not board like at bonafide depressed. And so she said, Well, there’s an old adage, go help someone who’s got it worse than you. And so I started volunteering at eldercare facilities because I thought I’m young screwed in the head and have no future who was worse than me. Oh, old, screwed in the head, and have no future because no one wants to listen to them. And I thought Uh huh. And I went to this eldercare facility.
Rick Jordan
There I’m not taking away but it’s what was that humor can be used? Is that kind of, if you don’t mind I’ll stop you the way through because partially through and we’ll keep going afterward Yes, but that catch things as you’re saying it’s like that humor is a way to try to mask those things and disassociate well
Cheryl Hunter
And I find that yes, you can disassociate with it. But also, there’s something so therapeutic in being able to provide for yourself the objectivity that laughter and humor provide. And this was one of the things I learned at these old age homes. I would sit there and just listen to these people. And before long, something started to click, I thought, well, I could go read books like Victor Frankel’s Man’s Search for Meaning, which is brilliant. Or I could learn it myself. And at that age, I wanted to learn it myself, from these people. And some of them had gone through something like the Holocaust, literally, yeah. And one was understandably hardened for life. Another went on to live a happy, productive, fruitful life, and war vets and people who’d been through the unthinkable I thought, I’m not the first person to go through adversity, what do these people know? And I started to break it down and codify what worked and what didn’t. And I came up with a way to overcome adversity. And I started helping people use this framework for themselves, survivors, mostly other survivors of sexual assault, trafficking, etc. And it worked. Now, by this point, my day job was writing network TV, and I thought, God, we have our hands on something through major media there, we create these water cooler moments where people around the nation around the world are talking about the same thing. What if they were talking about something that was for good, like how to overcome adversity, for example? And I set about trying to share this framework that I created through major media. Now the first time, you know, I had waited all these years to share and I thought, I’m no longer a teenager, holding my voice in biting my tongue doesn’t serve anybody anymore. It doesn’t serve me. I’m no longer a child who was afraid of being tracked down and killed. I’m just going to speak. And I had all the reasons why I never had, everyone will know how filthy and ruined and dirty I am. I thought what these men did, to me defiled me forever. Yeah. But again, that was the thinking of a teenager, I worried that one of the things that people would say was, why did you not stay until these men were put in jail, instead of running for your life? And I thought, You know what, that was the best I could do then was survive. I will deal with those things. If they come up. I thought, what if somebody tried to implicate me or say it was my fault? And that has happened in media interviews, people have asked me those kinds of questions. Yeah. And I’m, again, no longer a teenager, and I thought, ultimately, I can be the voice for those people who were like, I was back when I was a teenager, and felt too weak, too ruined, to stand up for myself. And I can give a voice to this, not only the experience that I shared with so many, but rather what’s possible on the other side, and I decided, no matter how uncomfortable it was, it was my sacred duty to share as loudly and as far and wide as I possibly could.
Rick Jordan
That’s beautiful. As I’m listening to you, I start thinking about all these opinions that others would have. It’s like, why don’t you stick around, you know, to see them put into jail? And it’s like, it’s usually opinions and judgments, you know, more often than not, or based upon all the wrong things, right? It’s, it’s, it’s ignorance, it’s lack of facts. They’re just basing it on things that they don’t understand that they don’t know. And that’s typically where it comes from. So I could see that perspective. It’s like, if I just was objective, I shouldn’t say objective, more like subjective, right? And just took it from my own experiences. My own life would be like, you know, what the hell? Why don’t just stick around, like stick it to him, you know, but that that’s a processing moment. You know, that led me to some more questions. I don’t know, I didn’t watch all of your interviews around this, you know, but surely, because of what happened. There had to be some processing, some healing, obviously, it’s trauma, you know, and it’s not something that you can forget, obviously, but you’ve chosen it to empower you, which is so frickin commendable. And then at the same time, you know, I start to think it’s like, how did that affect at the time? You know, did it delay your desire to be in any kind of relationship? Did it affect relationships early on? Good during that that healing process that was going on because everybody just unless you go through it, I’ve never been through something like that one. It’s it’s very different. Clearly between a man and a woman, unless it’s like a child abuse scenario, I would think but even that’s an ignorant statement from my perspective, because just because I’ve never been through it. And so I’m curious, what was the transition period between going through what you did to where you’re like, I’m gonna get my message out there. What was that healing like?
Cheryl Hunter
Well, I’m blessed to have been raised by a mother who was a seeker, she was always on a spiritual path. One of the spiritual type adages that she would share with me was that old adage when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. And at first, I was like, Well, I don’t want this pile of crap that I went through to be my teacher. I’d like to choose a teacher, ideally, one that looks something like Yoda. But I was like, and yet I can’t deny here is this thing that occurred? And what if the teacher is just what life hands us? Now, which sometimes it is? Right? Yeah, yeah, I really think so as well, that’s, you know, the relationships
Rick Jordan
is at work. It’s right there.
Cheryl Hunter
The most vexing things from which we are suffering. That’s the teacher, right? And I thought, well, what if I just say yes to whatever’s here on my path? And so if somebody recommended a book, I thought, Alright, well, that’s my journey, right now, that’s my teacher, or if someone recommended a personal development program, I’ll do that. And I started taking some personal development programs. And, you know, I didn’t know exactly what they were going to do. But I knew I was hurting. I knew I needed help. I knew I hadn’t, I had to go. I was at the proverbial fork in the road. I couldn’t continue to suffer. There was just no way. And it was helpful being with the old people. But it wasn’t everything. And I wanted something else. So I started taking personal development programs, I had taken everything they offered and said, Well, what else do you get? I feel so much better when I’m here. And they said, Well, you can train to leave them and I go on, that’s not what I want to do with my life, per se. And they said, well, at least you would be at a sort of the author of, or at the source of the education if you did that. So I trained to be a leader of these programs because I thought it would make me feel better. And it did. But it was massively therapeutic. Some of the distinctions were things like, radical ownership. And while it would never I would never say something like, or, and they would never say something like you’re to blame for being kidnapped when you were a teenager. It was I want some of the things that I could own is, Well, where did I go with that? Like how I’d said, I made up that I was damaged and ruined, and forever scarred. And I started to own those things. And each time I found that I got a surge of power, and I wanted to continue to give it away to other people. And that’s when I decided to start sharing my voice. I, you know, I had codified that framework that I found was very therapeutic and overcoming the adversity, the things that I had gotten while volunteering at these old age homes. But the final piece of all of it, that was unbeknownst to me, at the time was the piece about sharing my own journey. I had kept it inside for more than a decade. And I realized that sharing that which I had experienced was the final piece that would allow me to truly heal. Now for some people that’s like, you know, a trusted friend or loved one, or maybe like a support group or something, right?
Rick Jordan
Shout it out to millions, if not everybody.
Cheryl Hunter
I mean, you know, you talk about the impact of trauma. Yeah, right on, right. And if there is something therapeutic about being able to own it, and speak it give it a name. And I don’t mean trauma sharing, but authentically sharing the insights. The lessons the the other side. Yeah, shine a light on the path. Or thanks to those people.
Rick Jordan
Yeah, sorry. They gotta get where it’s like the Brooklyn Zoo. You said give it a name. But I mean, even though this is humorous, it’s bang on the Brooklyn zoo, I guess for Valentine’s Day this year, is allowing you to buy a cockroach for $15 and name it and watch it be eaten. But you name it after your ex If you report it, Yeah, it’s hilarious. But yeah, but it’s what you’re saying. I mean, it’s a humor extreme I mean to me very funny. Right and my boyish ways, right? Very funny that you can name a cockroach after your ex and watch it be eaten. That’s great. But still, there is no joke it’s like it’s what you’re saying it’s like even like the burning parties, you know that, that I know that women will have with their ex and put all their excess stuff in something and light it on fire. But what you’re talking about is powerful. Because it’s acknowledgement. Yeah, like I was one that back around literally naming something and giving it a name is acknowledgment. It is extremely therapeutic.
Cheryl Hunter
And one of the things that I’ve found over the years was so common to those who had gone through adversity. trauma, or, you know, specifically survivors of abuse. Is that we will hide that. Yeah. And hiding it. I don’t this may sound dorky, but I’m going to name like cockroaches.
Rick Jordan
Okay, be as dorky as you. I mean, you’re
Cheryl Hunter
okay, I’m going to drop heavy
Rick Jordan
stuff at the same time. It’s, it’s, it’s real. And there’s some humor we can pull out of that to make it relatable to dorky
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Phil said, Okay, so I’m named Robbie, Dr. Phil said, monsters live in the dark. And he said that I was blessed to have him interview me. And I realized, yes, when we hide our experience, and again, it doesn’t need to be shared with the world. That’s not for everyone. But when we hide that which we’ve endured, it can continue to have us by the throat as it were, versus when we’re able to share it. We are liberated from the constraints of the past. And there are those for whom sharing their experience, their mission, and their passion, with the world is the only way to go. Yeah. And once I had truly gotten my message out on a global scale, like hundreds of millions of people, I recognized you know what, I love the work that I did to help people overcome trauma but there’s an entire industry dedicated to that and I’m gonna let the psychotherapists and psychiatrists et cetera handle that. There’s nothing that exists to help those with a mission on their heart become renowned for that mission that passes that passion, their brand, whatever that is. I wrote network TV when I tried to get my message out to the world and it took me a decade and I thought there was not a hope. Or as my pop used to say back on the horse ranch in Colorado, there ain’t a snowball’s chance in hell. Like you don’t know why all these ranchers we all kind of talk like we’ve got a Twain I don’t care if it is from Rock Colorado.
Rick Jordan
Eliminate the twain I’m just curious.
Cheryl Hunter
I was there last week and I’m going pop, I’d tell you I don’t know what in the hell is happening with this old horse doc right here. I need to doctor and, and I was like, well, you
Rick Jordan
I only ask because I mean, when you do media, it’s off it’s like a lot of people cannot tell it from Chicago. Because I worked very hard hearing my family talk that way, you know, like extended finance. Like, yeah, we’re up from Chicago. You know, we’re gonna go around, and we’re gonna get some hot dogs that are Portillo’s. You know, it’s like nasally and everything. It’s like I will not sound like that when I’m on TV.
Cheryl Hunter
I love it. I have an uncle from there you midwesterner salt of the earth.
Rick Jordan
Oh my gosh, that’s a phrase. Yes. Yes, you’re right. Yes. So. So what’s the ranch?
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah, back to the ranch. Right. I realized these mission-driven people who weren’t connected in major media didn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell, of getting out in front of the world. So I thought, well, what’s that old saying? If not me, who if not now, when I gathered together a few of these TV producers and journalists that I had met over the years and getting my own message out and asked them to help me rally around other business owners and established experts who’ve got a mission on their heart a way that they want to change the world for the better. So we can help them gain a voice. And so that those people who do want to share their story, their message, their passion with millions actually can I look at it as absolutely like my sacred duty now. And I tell you every time one of these people gets out there and they’re on the Today Show or Good Morning America or 60 Minutes That’s or something like this, I tell you, everything that I went through is 100% worth it? It’s like it solidifies that every time. I love what I do, can you sell it?
Rick Jordan
Don’t make me cry, please. It’s only been a couple of shows I tried to keep my streak low, but it’s, it’s meaningful because when you’re in those moments, I can tell you, I felt one of the same things when I was in the White House, when I was in the West Wing and consulting on AI, border security, and it was literally for human trafficking. You know, and I’m sitting there, I’m about to walk into the Secretary of War Room. And it’s like those moments like, I gotta keep it together here. Because it’s like, it’s real. And I’m doing exactly what I was put on this earth for. And there are moments that I think that you know, because it Cheryl, people look like, look at us, and it’s like, wow, they’re, they’re really doing it, right. It’s like, what, what can I do? And in those moments, it’s like, what you do what you’re supposed to, you do what you’re meant to do. Now, because it’s you and I, we empower people yes, in every possible way. And it’s, I love what you’re doing. Because you’re, you’re able to be a model for so many that want to have a voice, especially women that want to have a voice that feels like they haven’t been able to, but then you’re out there and you’re like, see, we actually can, we can because I am. And it’s so so frickin inspiring. And because everyone who thinks that they can’t speak up, because of whoever it is, is gonna say something or whoever it is, is just gonna smack them or, or whatever, which both of those happen in this world, right? And who cares? You know, even if you get smacked. Even if somebody says something, you know, there’s gonna be those that are around. And I hear this all the time, you know, and maybe I’m on a little bit of a heartfelt rant because you pulled this out of me. It’s, it’s so crucial that those who have something to say, and even more so those who are meant to have something to say, actually get out there and speak it.
Cheryl Hunter
Absolutely. I mean, if you look at the state of the world today, what couldn’t we solve? Through the right people who’ve got true solutions and who solve big problems, having a voice, a platform, an audience, and a reach of millions? It’s just it’s staggering. I’ve got this client named John Michael Lander, and he’s a former platform diver gold medalist, was an Olympic bound as a boy and was trafficked, groomed by his coaches, you know, all those scandals, and he stayed silent. He never shared his story he tried originally, but people either blamed him or said he was at fault or didn’t believe him. And when he came to us, he said, Do you know how many times I’ve tried to sell or give away these gold medals? Because they’ve represented nothing but pain for me because no one has ever believed me? Do you know, he’s now been on everything from 60 Minutes to George Clooney, his new documentary about Ohio, the Ohio State scandal, he last year addressed Congress. And he’s been brought in now to law enforcement agencies around the nation and universities and all of these places where he is helping to educate those in power on what trafficking and grooming look like. And to have this man now have such a platform, and not just be believed, but be sought after, for his expertise is just, it’s just such a dream come true.
Rick Jordan
For sure. There’s a lot like, I don’t know what it was with him, maybe he had to wait for the invitation or whatever. But what you’re doing is awesome, because you’re actually just showing this like, you don’t even have to wait for that. You don’t have to wait for the invitation. It’s like I’m just showing you it’s like there’s a microphone or a metaphorical microphone over there. Maybe it starts with just this small group that you’re a part of whatever it is, but there are other ways and then, Jeez, you’re able to just show them, hey, here’s the wide world, here’s the expansive world and all the microphones that are possible for you to be in front of, to tell your story and to influence others.
Cheryl Hunter
Right. And there’s, you talked earlier about those dreams that are deep within us oftentimes lately, you know, I remember as a girl, right? Yeah, we think we can’t have them. And I remember as a girl, if we were truly in the flyover zone here in the most remote part of Colorado where in any direction I’d look out and there’d be no signs of current-day civilization. It could have been 100 years ago, 200 years ago, except for we had planes that flew overhead. And I would lie there, among the cows and the cow patties and the men in the meadows, and just look up and think, Oh, if I stared hard enough at that plane, I might be the girl. I might like, get sucked up in it and be the girl looking at the girl down on the ground and the cow patties? How could I get up on that plane? Other than just staring at it and imagining that, well, I’d have to be going places I’d have to be doing things for people and helping them somehow. And that was my big dream to help people. But I thought, you know, I know how to ride horses. Well, I’m certainly not the best at it. What else could I possibly teach people? How else could I possibly serve them or help them? Yeah. And sure enough, if the student is ready, the teacher will appear to have handed me the kidnapping. And I was like, well, this isn’t what I want to talk about. But it’s what’s here. And I did learn to overcome it and help a lot of other people overcome it. Well, what the hell maybe that is what I’m supposed to share. And gorgeously, this beautiful benevolent universe works. I fulfilled the dream of that little girl lion among the cows in the meadow. I got to and get to help amazing people. Yeah. As just a cowgirl, like, what do I know? You know, I just went through the open door.
Rick Jordan
I think we need to find some footage of you from that point in your life. Because you probably have it but you know, as your I know, because what you’re saying it’s like, yeah, you’re just a cowgirl. I use the same thing. It’s like, yeah, I was just a broke dude with two newborn twins. When when I started in the business, you know, literally no dollars whatsoever. It’s the relatability. Because when you say things like that, it’s like absolutely true. So if you’re listening, just envision that right. Envision Cheryl just on the ranch, right? That’s it like just there? And I don’t know, maybe we could give the cow a name. Cow name. Let’s get the county you’re there with either with Bill, I don’t know why Bill comes into my mind would build a cow. Okay. But, with everything that’s there. And just understanding that it’s like, this is Oh, man. Because you’ve been with Dr. Phil, Dr. Oz, all these people, right? And there’s one thing like even with Tony Robbins, I’ll talk about him here and there. I love the dude and what he does because he impacts a lot of people too. There’s one thing he says like, like life is happening for you, not to you. You know, and I love that. And I get where he’s going, you know, but then I see. And I talk and I meet with people like you. And it’s like that one thing. You said something a while back. It’s like you didn’t cause that. Right. But what your responsibility and ownership was was everything after that. So at that moment, something did happen to you. That’s not the lesson that even Tony is trying to say it’s like, you know, that actually, even though it happened to you, it’s still happened for you. A man does that now there’s so many other people that you can impact, you know, and it sucks. Oh, man, I get it. Because I mean traumas that people go through. You know, the thing I relate back to all the time is my dad passing when I was 16. It’s just, there’s stuff that I think everybody goes through. But the strongest people and the ones with the biggest message are the ones that go through the most adversity, just like you. And there’s got to be something because there’s so many people that don’t talk about this stuff that don’t give it a name. They don’t have that cockroach and him What can you tell them to encourage them to be able to step up? You know, what, where’s the starting point? You know, how did you get invited onto a film set for the first time? You know? Because I think you said it was a film set the very first time that you told your story. How did that transpire? You know, because not everybody’s a film set, but what do you start to deliver that message? Well,
Cheryl Hunter
I’ve heard this quote my grandma used to just love the Lord and everything. All roads lead back to him, right? And she’d say, Well, if the Lord put it in your heart, he’s given you a way to fulfill it. And I would think Yeah, but how can he leave instructions at all his books you know, there’s I really do think that’s the first place and to recognize is, if you’ve got something on your heart that you want to give away some way you want to serve or make a difference with people, there are, you have got within you what it takes to fulfill it.
Rick Jordan
That’s a commonality too, isn’t it? With people who have had dramas, it’s like, it’s almost a natural thing that I’ve found, like with you with, with me with everybody I’ve spoken to, it’s like something really bad happens to you. And all you want to do is help other people, it’s actually a healing mechanism for you, you have to do it.
Cheryl Hunter
Precisely. And it’s I think there’s really something about that thing about embracing what life has handed you those looks. It can go two different ways, right? We know what life is like when we fight that which has happened. It’s a miserable existence. And I finally thought and I, I can’t claim ownership of this, I stand on the shoulders of giants. I’ve learned from these brilliant people at these eldercare facilities. And I learned that the moment we say yes to that, which is on our path, it reveals its gifts to us. Those are the gifts that are locked tightly inside of that before that moment. But the moment we say yes, it reveals those things to us. And then I think that actually links back to what my grandmother said about if you’ve got a dream you’ve got within you what it takes to fulfill it. And I think it’s yes within us. But the way that we partner with God, the universe, whatever you believe is, this thing happens. I say yes to it. And then whatever life hands me next, reveals the next step. Yeah, look, I’m not saying you have to if you want to share a message with the world, you got to waste dang decade like I did. There are ways now to do it. I mean, I can help with that. That’s one of the things we do. But if you just keep going through that proverbial open door that reveals itself on your path, I think life provides for us what we need when we just say yes to what’s there, rather than fighting what’s there. It’s not always easy, right? I didn’t have any idea how to survive. The thing that was kind of crazy to me, Rick was, I was physically held captive. And then they let me go for God only knows what reason. And then chased me later. But that’s another point. But then there, I was free and I’m like, I should feel so happy. This is what I fantasized about the whole time being free. But why do I feel more captive now than ever? I didn’t know how to deal with that. The last thing that I wanted to do was go, Yes, I love you captivity of the mind, mind fuckness.
Cheryl Hunter
But when I fought it, I stayed captive. When I finally asked, What do you have for me? What are you trying to teach me? Yes, yes, whatever that is, then it revealed the profundity of the gift that would have stayed locked forever, as long as I stayed, hissed off by it, and vexed by it, and victimized by it. Like that shouldn’t have happened. It should be a safer world or what have you, whatever I was saying.
Rick Jordan
That’s it, that emotion as you get pissed off at it. That is a natural, isn’t it? Just part of grief? Do you think that’s what you were going through at that time? Because it’s definitely
Cheryl Hunter
an uptick. So to speak from victimhood, right? There’s this brilliant author whose name I’m not recalling power versus Force. David, I can’t think of
Rick Jordan
what we’re talking about is progress. Right outside of victimhood. It is a step in the right direction.
Cheryl Hunter
Yes, angers a step up from victimhood and hopelessness. But it’s it’s not the stopping point. And for many of us, we can get stuck there in the anger and the sort of thoughts of retaliation, but it just doesn’t. It doesn’t yield any fruit. Ultimately, it’s a good step on the ladder. Yeah.
Rick Jordan
I’d rather it’s a chuckle a little bit. It’s like I’d rather see somebody who’s gone through something really, really pissed off. It’s like, Oh, good. You’re ready to make a move. Now you’re ready to do something about it. That’s how I feel it is pissed off. You know, at least you’re not sitting there in a corner anymore. It’s like I Understand, it’s like, but the whole world is out here for you. And people want to hear that you’re angry. And when people want to hear that you’re angry. That means that there’s actually a voice that you have because people want to listen to you. Yes,
Cheryl Hunter
I mean, our anger can be it’s one of the things we talk to our clients about. Generally, it’s not a galvanizing force, unless you are rallying against injustice. Yeah, in which case, anger is a galvanizing force. Otherwise, you know, conversations about what’s possible or more galvanizing, but definitely when there’s an injustice, yeah, it has a purpose. Yeah.
Rick Jordan
Right on. Wow, this has been amazing so we’ve gone through a lot of those. A lot of the periods you were healing, getting on major media, you know, we can leave everybody because I’ve got this like you. I remember the last company that I acquired, you know, because they’re like, Oh, you’re on TV. It’s like, how do you get on TV? I want to be on TV, I want to do this, you know. And it’s cool because it was just somebody who was like, maybe a structured cabling technician, like pulling wires as part of the company. And he’s like, I want to do that. I want to get him like, awesome. That’s where it starts. It’s like exactly what you’re talking about. Cheryl is like, there’s something that’s there. I don’t know what his message is. I have no idea but hearing that, like, how did you get started into that?
Cheryl Hunter
Well, I was writing network TV. And I, like I said, I could see the difference it made. And so I just thought, Okay, I’m going to become one of those people. And I’m not kidding. When I say it took me a decade, I started trying to pitch and there are so many ways to do it wrong. I had no idea. Yeah. And I burned bridges early on by thinking I was doing the right thing by not trying like I was trying to reach out to somebody Good Morning America, and I just didn’t know any better. I got an introduction to a producer. Good Morning, America. That was mistake number one until you’ve got talking points and sound bites and already been on major media. You’ve got no business being introduced to a gatekeeper. But I didn’t know that and so I went full steam ahead and met her and turned her off instantly.
Rick Jordan
They have to see that you’re a reliable guest. Right that you’re gonna show up like that. That’s the previous experience. Yeah. I mean, there’s some you get thrown on Good Morning, America first, but you’re talking you know, like the, like the Harlem Globetrotters. Were like the Boy Scouts of America, like the best troop in America, they’ll they’ll get a quick, a quick segment on there. But that’s not something like we’re tapped
Cheryl Hunter
for their expertise. Yeah, exactly. Right. God, I burned more bridges. I think that’s probably why it took so long I would well intended, reach out to gatekeepers and say something like, Oh, would you like to use me? Here’s what I do, and talk just about the Mimimi show for a while, and they’d be like, block spam, and I would never hear from them again. But, you know, it was trial and error for a very long time. And there’s a way to, there’s a way to tie what you do to what’s happening in the world in such a way that makes major media want to cover it. But then when you get there, you’ve got to deliver the segment in a way that not only discusses what’s happening in major media in the current news cycles but also serves their audience in a market-specific way. And I just didn’t, I didn’t get that part of the game. And so each time, I would fail, or not get invited on, or burn a bridge. Unwittingly, I would write it down and vowed to do it differently the following time, and it took so much trial and error for anyone to do that. But say it again.
Rick Jordan
So I’m actually giving you feedback on your pitches. Oh, I
Cheryl Hunter
can’t I don’t think so. I mean, I’m sure maybe once it happened in there.
Rick Jordan
Yeah, I didn’t think so the way the way I was hearing you was more so it’s like, yeah, I would vow to change them. Like, did they actually tell you I’ve never experienced that? Who are these producers? Yeah.
Cheryl Hunter
Yeah, that’s not a thing. I just had to I had to break it down and go, Why is this failing? And I could see like, look and study television and magazines and newspapers and radio and what is working? I became such a student and realized, well, I was pitching a segment like X when they actually do segments like Why on that network? No wonder so now I’ve been blacklisted. there, huh? How can I do it differently moving forward? Because no, they don’t tell you?
Rick Jordan
No, not at all. That’s good research to do ahead of time it’s always timely hooks, local hooks, and local even if it doesn’t necessarily mean around their specific geographical area, but it’s what you’re talking about, like local internally to their own network. How do they do this? Usually? What do they like? What do they enjoy to cover? Just like the Bob Zellers example, I gave you as a call back here to what we were talking about earlier. It’s like, they wanted me to be hardcore Republican and go after big tech. And it’s like, you brought me on here, but I’ll be divisive. And that serves the audience exactly what you were saying was, yeah, I laughed at that.
Cheryl Hunter
As they say, and TV conflict is King conflict is ratings. And, and generally, the problem with that is, what they’ll do is throw these guest experts on the sword, like, like you’re just saying, make you the one who is, is the one that at the conflict is at your expense. Because generally, a new person has no idea how to spin out of that. How to both answer the question, serve the audience, and get invited back again. Wow, simultaneously edifying yourself. It’s it’s not easy.
Rick Jordan
It’s not easy. It is fun. When you learn how to do it. It’s a lot of fun when you learn how to do it. It’s a rush actually, truly
Cheryl Hunter
is right? Yep. The privilege.
Rick Jordan
It is absolutely. Cheryl, I appreciate you. There’s so much more that we can dive into in your story. But I think anybody who has a message needs to contact you. Where’s the best place to get in touch with you?
Cheryl Hunter
Cheryl hunter.com is my website, we’ve got everything listed there,
Rick Jordan
A great site, I love it, I was on it earlier. Check out it for real if you’re if you have a message, or this is what I’m gonna tell you to go to Cheryl’s website, if you have a message, or you’ve ever thought it’s like, oh, it’d be fun to be on TV. That’s great. There’s a lot of work and effort that goes into it to get to the point where you’ll be that reliable guest take a look at Cheryl’s appearances on our media page. You know, a lot of that, what’s there? It’s brilliant. It’s awesome. I’m watching you, Cheryl. And I see you and I’m like, Oh, I could do that, too. That’s a lot of fun.
Cheryl Hunter
Thank you, you know? Yes. I mean, my media appearances are great. Thank you. And, what I’m most proud of is our clients and what they’re able to do, several of them have things like new inventions. I’ve got a client, Dr. Michael Hutchinson. He’s a dentist, and he invented a mouthguard to stop concussions because he wanted his own son who was playing contact sports to be safe. And now he’s meeting with big generals have the US Army to give them to all enlisted men and women. And it’s like, wait, what? Yeah, imagine preventing concussions in our armed forces. And now he’s doing it with big pro sports leagues. And, I mean, this is a guy who, people when he first started talking about this mouthguard, and he’s like, Oh, but it goes on the bottom there. Like, have you not seen the NFL? mouthguards? Go on the top guy, don’t you know anything? And everyone’s trying to prove him wrong. And he’s like, No, this actually works. And he just couldn’t get his message out there. And it’s so inspiring to see someone like that, who, who’s got a true solution for people being able to get the air of the world. So yes, by all means, look at those people’s videos, that’s the real inspiring thing.
Rick Jordan
What you do for them is also inspiring I appreciate your humility, but it’s a you are the person who was sent to their lives. And there’s nothing wrong with taking ownership of that either because that is taking ownership of your message. You know, I didn’t mean to turn into coaching, but absolutely, because it’s an I once had a Navy Seal, retired Navy Seal, who was one of my coaches. And one of the things he told me because I held back on saying something is like, it sounds like you want to say something. Is it about yourself? And I’m like, Well, yeah, but I don’t want to sound arrogant, like, Well, is it true? I said, Well, yeah, it’s true. And he goes, well, then it’s just fact. And it’s up to the people on the other end to receive and how they’re going to receive it. It’s not on you. So if you speaking facts about something good about yourself. You can help inspire other people in delivering the message so you can show up for them perfectly okay. That he helped me get over this like false humility, this oppression from when I was a kid like you’ve just that one statement, by all means, yes. You are the person who has sent all of your client’s lives to Cheryl. That’s who you are Yep. Thank you. You bet. Thanks for coming on the show. I’ve enjoyed Are you