From Garage to Public | Joe Cecala

Episode Topics:

• Learn why most great ideas never get funded and what’s being done to fix it.
• Understand the real gap between private funding and going public that nobody talks about.
• Discover how new legislation will create opportunities for middle-market companies.
• Get insider knowledge from someone who’s actually built stock exchanges.
• Hear the three pieces of advice that separate successful entrepreneurs from everyone else.

 

Rick Jordan  

What’s shakin’? Hey, I’m Rick Jordan, and today we’re going all in. It’s good to have you in. Buckle up for this one, because we’re gonna dive deep today into securities. And what I mean securities, I mean the markets, the stock markets, and ways you can grow your company. I’ve been talking a while now about how reach out my cybersecurity company was about to go public, and now we are public with the regulation tier two offering, which is pretty badass. And today this amazing dude from my hometown in Chicago right here, who is also a former US Army cavalry officer, civil rights lawyer, securities lawyer and CPA. Man, that’s a lot of stuff. Joe Cecala, welcome to the show, buddy.

 

Joe Cecala  

Too much for one lifetime. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah. I mean, your bio is awesome, man, and I so look, we’ll get into a lot of it, but there’s so much stuff, because everyone’s always wonders, like, what do I do? And it’s really cool for me to see today in age that there’s a lot of younger people that are starting to ask, and when I’m saying younger, I’m talking in their 20s, generally, but sometimes even down into their teens. Now, dude, I’m seeing people are asking, Hey, how do I get into investing in something? Because it’s awesome, because it’s not just like, if I could just phrase it this way, an old people’s thing anymore.

 

Joe Cecala  

Right? It’s well, thanks to the internet right on, yes, it’s young people’s thing. It really is. The response from young Americans all walks of life. We had a million people through our website a year ago from one press release. And most of those people were much younger. They’re thinking with building wealth, building equity, investing in markets. And, you know, we’re kind of be, we’re trying to be a part of making it more accessible to that marketplace. That’s that’s really a primary purpose, is to democratize finance for a younger generation of people investing.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s pretty awesome, and plus, probably get them the education behind what they’re actually investing in as well, which is sometimes pretty elusive.

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, that, in fact, that’s been the one of the primary goals, is we have one program called it’s a financial literacy program, which is complicated. When you say remedial, you know, to me, you know Mandarin Chinese, I would start at remedial. You know, it’s an entire science that most people know nothing about. So you’ve got to really start with the basics and give people enough information to move forward. And there’s so much information crowdfunding, and there’s, you know, Kickstarter, and there’s all these things that are coming at people via the internet. And really what we want to do is start educating people saying, Okay, how do you, how do you go through this ecosystem? How do you go from a little, tiny acorn to an oak tree? You know, congratulations, by the way, you’ve won the Golden prize being a public company is, you know, it’s just, it’s a rarity today. Thanks, brother. Thank you, and our goal is to see more of you. We want to see people graduating in the School of capital markets, if you will. And I guess, primarily, just as a start, you know, the primary goal of the dream exchange has always been to help cultivate the most brilliant ideas. You know, I’ve been doing this close to 30 years, and what I found is that the best ideas come from the most obscure corners of our society. You know, Steve Jobs started in a garage. You know, these, these things are not unique stories. Actually, we have a guy in a in a webcast that we did, who’s a major hair care supplier and never went to college, and he started the hair care supply company in the like the 60s, in his garage with a bathtub. He didn’t know mixing chemical. He wasn’t a chemist. He just knew how to do that. You know, it’s a multi million dollar company, 100 100 million plus dollar company today. So we want to cultivate that we can’t lose that. That’s what makes the country amazing. You know, crazy, right now, when I would know I’m a Cold War generation kid, I think we conquered the Soviet Union with Coca Cola and rock and roll. I love it. Yes, we have we have better ideas. We have cool stuff. And we’ve got to get those people the investment capital they need to expand. On. So the best ideas are always out there. The fabric of the American genius is always getting the money it needs. So we survive better. You know, it’s not just a cool app, but there are people in laboratories that have, you know, the next invention, the next cure, and we can’t lose them. We can’t lose that early stage and middle market company, because to lose that, we really lose the greatness that makes a free society and a free market system work. So that’s the that’s the primary purpose, 14 year journey of creating, creating a stock exchange for the second time in my career.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s pretty awesome. I love that, that you’ve been involved in creating the exchanges, and also in some of the legislation too, from what I’ve seen right with the mainstream growth act, Main Street growth act,

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah. I mean, so you know, the main street growth act started out in 2015 as a three page securities bill. It wasn’t very good. And what I did, I kept visiting Washington, met with over 200 members of the House and Senate over the last five years to really contribute to making it into a meaningful new, different stock exchange capital market, yeah, designed specifically to handle the gap. So you can go out, you can rent, raise some venture money, or some seed investors or friends and family. And the gap between that stage of a company’s life cycle and graduating to a national market exchange is enormous. So we designed a bill that allows for liquidity into those intermediate level companies. They can graduate. They it’s a stepping stone, and we researched it for years. Actually, there’s an article, if everyone wants to sleep well, there’s a white paper published in Oxford University’s handbook on IPOs. It’s chapter nine. Myself and our director of research are the authors. It’s called low visibility markets acting as stepping stones to national exchanges. So we need this new structure, because people just don’t know that that structure doesn’t exist. They’re waiting around until a magical day when Goldman Sachs knocks on their door and says, We want to take the public and it just doesn’t happen that way. You know, it takes hard work and it takes a dedicated marketplace, and we’ve designed a brand new type of security, brand new type of stock exchange that once the bill passes, actually. So back to the bill. The bill actually went through the United States Congress in the House unanimously three times in 2018 and the and the Senate wants unanimously. So the only reason we’re talking about it as Bill is would have been signed into law, but they shut the government down, if everyone remembers at the end of 2018 over the the funding for the border wall. So all the bills that were attached to that year end appropriations bill, they were kicked to the next Congress, and then we’ve had COVID, but the bill has been reintroduced. It’s bipartisan. There’s three Democrats in the House, one in three Democrats, one Republican in the House, Republican. We got bipartisan support in the Senate too. I expect it’s a matter of when it will pass, rather than whether it will pass. It’s been vetted by Congress multiple times, and the marketplace really, you know, you just did an IPO and, you know, there’s underwriters, and there’s book runners, and there’s accountants and lawyers.

 

Rick Jordan  

Oh my god, it’s a process. It is the hard work. Yeah, right.

 

Joe Cecala  

And so the problem is, when you do that first round or second or third round, and there’s a lot of capital, and the company could expand, but it can’t really expand without more capital. That’s what a public company environment does. It gets you millions and millions of dollars at your disposal, and before that happens, you’ve got a myriad of problems. One is if you’ve issued a secure this is a little known fact. Here’s an educational point when, when you start your small private company, it’s private because you haven’t registered your shares with the Securities Exchange. That’s the difference between private and public, meaning that once you register shares, you now have a stock of security available for sale to anyone. The Securities Professionals call elite, the grandmas, orphans and whales. You can sell it to anyone. Okay, before that, to sell that stock, you have to prepare enormous exemption. In documents, okay, private placement, exemptions. There’s about 18 different ones. It’s a labyrinth of rules. And here’s the really interesting thing, once that investor makes his first investment, you raise your 100,000 $500 million they the investors now settle with the exact same problem. He can’t sell his shares either. They’re not registered. So in order to resell the shares, what that’s the purpose behind the stock exchange, stock market, buy and sell, not only do you have to register the shares, but registration doesn’t automatically entitle you to list on an exchange. So great. You’ve got, you’ve got to stop it’s public. Well, where does someone go to buy it? Well, they have to go to a broker. If it’s not listed on an exchange. A broker is not easily finding all. This was called the over the counter market. Yep, yep. Easy to find those securities. And here’s what’s really what you touched on, the importance of the transparent and truthful information. Even for a registered company over the counter, company is generally missing. But if you’re listed on an exchange, you have to comply. You’ve got to tell the investors what the deal is. So the exchange environment provides an added trustworthiness, which makes the securities more saleable because they’ve been vetted by an exchange process. 

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I’m starting to put two and two together, because ours is a ours is a mini IPO. You know, with the regulation, there a tier two, and there’s no exchange with those at first, you know, you Yeah, exactly. So, no, I understand. So, you know, there’s, um, I’m comparing this a little bit to, you know, for those who are listening and follow us here, because this is a lot of good information, everybody, it’s a lot of, you know, it’s high level stuff that we’re really, bringing it down to just easily inaccessible information for you, because there’s in Canada, right? There’s TSX, the Toronto Stock Exchange, but then there’s also TSX Venture. This sounds very similar to that sort of structure. Is that true?

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, the actual nomenclature in the mainstream growth act is venture exchanges. Nice, you’re exactly right. This is my contribution to the bill we had. There’s three tiers of securities in there. The lowest tier is, you just mentioned regulation, a regulation, a plus, yep. Well, you can go public with those securities. Okay, especially you’re at the time of the highest tier of Regulation A, but you don’t have an exchange, so I fought very hard for two years Regulation A in the securities laws is known as a section 3b exemption. Section 3b stock is now eligible to be traded on a Venture Exchange once this law passes. So you’re a perfect example. I didn’t know this was going to happen

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s kind of cool, isn’t it?

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, it’s perfect example of a security that would then be listed on a Venture Exchange. And there’s a marketplace if you want to go to Robin Hood and find your company, because your broker will have access to it, you’ll find the company, and you can freely trade your stock on the Venture Exchange.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, it’s been an interesting process too, with that too, because this is Regulation A for everyone listening is that’s the method that reach out, went my company in order to it’s an easier entry because there’s less compliance that’s needed, there’s less reporting that’s needed. It’s a way for the private companies that Joe’s talking about to kind of ease in to the public market space and then have some exponential growth after at least that’s the way my consulting team told me, right.

 

Joe Cecala  

Ways I public offering. It’s not a real and what you’re saying, I said there’s 18 exemptions. Well, this would still be considered an exemption to a full, what they call 1933 registration, 1933 act registration. You’re, you’re still sort of exempt from a lot of rules, yeah. Because look, how can you comply? One of the main complaints is, for example, it could cost a million dollars a year to comply with the Sarbanes Oxley act, right? Okay. Well, if you, if your gross revenue is $4 million a year, you’re not going to pay that. You’re by the same token. There’s nothing really untrustworthy for Sarbanes Oxley to address. So we got to get you into a marketplace where a good company that’s transparent, that does its proper reporting and has been vetted by a team of. People at a stock exchange now you’re freely trading. You can go to the app and find your company that’ll have a listing symbol, buy it. And the beauty of this is, resell it. The key is liquidity. Okay, private company stocks are generally illiquid. You can’t find buyers. You can’t find buyers because you can’t find a marketplace. Yeah, it’s a supermarket. You can have the best tomatoes in all of the land. And if you can’t get your tomatoes to a market, you just got some rotten tomatoes eventually. So we need a marketplace that’s that’s stock, that’s all stock exchanges are. They’re an auction marketplace for good company security. So, yeah, we’re really hitting this. I’ve been hitting it for years because that’s what I did for a living. I was a lawyer for VCs earlier in my career, and the fundamental question they always ask, I love this company, I want to make this investment, especially the smaller investors. I want to make the investment. How do I get out, Joe, what’s my exit? How long will I tie up my 100, $200,000 and the answer always was, till a big company buys it for less 20 years. Now, like I said, we’re data driven from 2000 and before, we were averaging between 500 and as many in some years, close to 900 IPOs a year. And 70 to 90% of those IPOs were companies that were 50 million or not in the last 20 years we’re having like four or five.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, yeah, they’ve slowed down a lot, yep. 

 

Joe Cecala  

Well, volume thing. So this is a so I was with a lawyer who founded what the company the world came to know as archipelago. So archipelago was really the premier and first company to trade stocks over the internet in the late 1990s and the volume of archipelago electronically just dwarfed the rest of the market and by 2005 my former client, Jerry Putnam became they acquired the New York Stock Exchange, and Jerry became chairman because a trading floor was now an antiquated thing. Every everything had moved to an electronic environment. Yeah. So that drives, you know, if you’re a business person, well, you want to make money, and if you’re in the business of taking companies public, really the aftermath of the public offering, the volume of that company stock is what you’re concentrating so a billion dollar IPO will have, you know, literally, you know, billions of dollars and millions, or hundreds of millions of shares trading volume in its first year. A $50 million company is in its first year, won’t have as much volume as a billion dollar company has in a week. Yeah, sure. Why would you do it? Why would an investment bank or a stock exchange be attracted to that market? So we are approaching it that the volume of the market is in the numbers of IPOs. That’s our our business model is, I’d rather have 20,000 really good, small companies on my Venture Exchange. Then, you know, we have 3500 companies in the country right now that are really on the big board public companies. I’d rather have 20,000 and maybe your company won’t trade all day every day, but you’ve got liquidity, you’ve got a vetted vetting process, you’ve got investor protections, and you have the liquidity you need to bring in the extra capital to put the extra systems there, to hire the extra people to expand your company. And that’s really, this is very detailed, actually, pleasantly, I don’t necessarily get this granular, but that’s really what the Venture Exchange marketplace will look like. It’ll probably be beyond my lifetime. It’s a brand new thing. It’s just been invented, but it’s an idea that’s got legs. This will be here for 1020, 30 years. It’ll just become a part of the fabric, and you’ll go, Oh, you’re, you’re doing in an initial venture offer, like you’re doing reg a Yeah, you know, 10 years from now, it’ll be, hopefully it’ll be just commonplace, you know, we’ll be talking about how the venture markets are doing, instead of what, what is a venture?

 

Rick Jordan  

No doubt, the first, that’s an incredible legacy. That’s That’s amazing, man, you got to be just thrilled to death that this is something that you have, you’ve had a good hand in.

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, I love what I do. It really has been. I mean, especially if you ask, I’m an entrepreneur, okay, at heart, I. Would lecture at universities and I get an MBA program, I say, Okay, how many of you think you’re an entrepreneur? And everyone would raise their hand and say, Okay, how many have a day job? Okay, you’re not really. You got a side hustle?

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, no kidding. Amen to that.

 

Joe Cecala  

And then this, the next question is, Okay, how many of you put your payroll on your credit cards. That’s an entrepreneur. And I love those people. I love risk taking, taking people. I love people who are hell bent for leather that will succeed. And, you know, and my viewpoint is just never quit. You just keep plowing ahead, finding a new way, and eventually, if you can get to my marketplace, you know, then you can start your get your diploma in the public markets, and then graduate to the national exchanges. So that’s really I do, I love. I’m hoping that it’ll be a great legacy. I I’m old enough now to be actually thinking about my oldest son is going to be 30, and he’s thinking about kids. So I look at it through that lens. I’m not actually thinking like a 25 year old entrepreneur, where maybe I can hurry up and make a score and buy a big house. I’m more thinking of it, what’s going to happen to my grandkids 35 years from now, when I’m here to take care and this is, I think, a wonderful thing for the country, unanimous consent of the Congress, just the reason I’m and thank you for asking that, and thank You for the acknowledgement, right? We changed the mind of 24 members of the House Financial Services Committee. So the bill originally was introduced and it was 32 to 24 Republicans, yes, Democrats, no. So I met with all of them over a two year period. And I don’t know if you know what it’s like to get 56 members. Of Congress on either side of the aisle to all agree. I mean, they won’t agree that water is wet.

 

Rick Jordan  

This is truth, everybody.

 

Joe Cecala  

So because we presented it like I’m presenting it here, I’m just telling the truth, and then it helps me sleep at night. This is a really good thing for everybody. Um, I’m hoping there’ll be competition. I my, my greatest fear with our Venture Exchange is that we’ll be drinking from a fire hose like the response amongst.

 

Rick Jordan  

You have a huge wave of adopters. Yeah, yep,

 

Joe Cecala  

it’s huge. And, you know, I’m hoping that there’ll be three, four or five other exchanges. Right now, I’m only aware of two other the NASDAQ is clearly wants to start exchange, but they’re actually shooting for a much higher tier of security than we are. So there’s virtually no over, yeah. And there’s another small group that they’re kind of kicking it around. They, they’re part of an exchange group. But we need, like, 20 of 20. I mean, I’d love to have 20 competitors to be fun. Um, you know, not everybody’s uh, flavor is Dream exchange. Great. Maybe there’ll be a menu, you know, Baskin Robbins, they’ll be, they’ll be 36 players.

 

Rick Jordan  

Yeah, I’m actually a little bit sad, because with my play right now, it’s, I wish that this would have just completely been signed into law back in 2018 because that’s the one question that I get all the time. It’s from people who don’t understand the public markets is, which is the majority of Americans, and not in a bad way. It’s just they think stock exchange is NYSE and NASDAQ. That’s it. Beyond that, there’s, there’s nothing. There’s no other type of Public Security, exactly. So a question I got, it’s like, cool, let me know, and I’ll go on a Robin Hood and buy your stock. Like, that’s not where this is.

 

Joe Cecala  

Here’s my email, and you you’re still at kind of, you know, not that that’s snail mail, but you’re still at a point where there is no bona fide marketplace, yeah, for those companies.

 

Rick Jordan  

We literally have to create the market ourselves, and that’s the hard work with something like this.

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, and, and it goes right down that lane where everything is relationship driven, yeah, because sending an email with it, you know, an investor deck, and you’re talking to your broker, and he’s talking to three people, and it becomes just a sheer relationship driven capital market. And if you’re disenfranchised, what if you don’t have those relationships? Well, you can have the best company in the world and not find your risk when we did our thing, the number one survey word for what we’re doing was access that the investors don’t have access to a menu of these types of investments, and the the i. Entrepreneurial company, the early stage company, they don’t have access to a menu of like minded or strategic investors, so we are the access point. That’s That’s what get into the market.

 

Rick Jordan  

It’s incredible, man. I can’t wait to see where this is going to go over the next several years, because I know where I went, where I came from, and what I went through, because especially going through this in a pandemic, taking a company public, it delayed so many things, you know, and it took about two and a half years from start to qualification with the SEC and a lot of money, about those about three times as long and about three times as much money to get to that point. And I guess that’s what they teach you at the Wharton Business School too, is like a 3x Rule.

 

Joe Cecala  

Yeah, yeah. If you’re going to hire one person, plan that it’s going to take three to get the get the Yeah. And what’s interesting you’re saying about the cost of it, that’s because there’s really no standardization. So your offering, while there’s boxes to check, well, you know, did you have audited financials for so many years? Yeah, see, it’s a checklist. But what? How standard is that? So in other words, when the Why does everyone think NYSE and NASDAQ, well, they’re the only two exchanges that actually have a license to take on new public offerings. So if you’re not eligible for those two exchanges, and they have very stringent rules, yeah, the ones are huge. So if you, if, even if you check all the boxes the standardization, which is good for NYSE and NASDAQ, because everyone’s then familiar with it. It’s like, you know, you go to Starbucks to buy coffee, you know what you’re going to get? Yeah, I see your NASDAQ. You know what that product is? It’s just a different company. Well, saying that even though you’re a different company, and you’re in the right lane, by the way. Talk about expansion areas of our of our world in security and electronic security is it’s just, there’s nothing, but it’s gonna go but, okay, great. There’s a whole industry of companies like that that an investor then can put one next to the other and say, Oh, I choose this one. It’s the best, or I choose these 10, because one of you know, maybe five of those forces will win the race, and they can choose to diversify and concentrate at the same time, I want to concentrate in electronic security and cyber security companies, but I want to diversify, and I want to take, you know, a $10,000 bet on five of these 10 companies. Instead of having to choose one and put all 50,000 into one place, the exact same reason that for 230 years, the large capital markets have worked. We just are willing to look at the smaller guys. We’re interested in willing and I think that’s really what drives me most, is people like you, where I love meeting those people I you know I know this. I know I like to be in the room where I know I’m not the smartest guy.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s when you learn. Don’t you love that I like on the Contra I love being the dumbest person, man. It’s like, how much can I learn by being in here? Believe me.

 

Joe Cecala  

Listen to that guy. Wow. He’s a genius. And pick up what he’s got and carry it forward, and that’s really what this whole markets about. Yeah, I and one congressman asked me, you know, so do you have success stories of the kind of companies that will be in this market? I said, I’ve got a couple, but that’s really not what it’s about. It’s about all the people I haven’t been able to help. You know, we had a Nobel, the 2005 Nobel Prize winner for chemistry who started a company. Wow, that’s confidential, but we couldn’t raise money for the guy, he was a little too forward thinking. I mean, he was way ahead of his time, but talk about wicked smart. I mean, he was absolutely anyone I’d ever met, and I thought I would give you my money, but you know, I’m not the cadre of investors. You know, he needed $30 million yeah, he’s perfect for this market. Perfect. I would invest in just some people say you invest in sometimes you invest in the horse, sometimes you invest in the jockey. Well, he was clearly the jockey that I would have invested.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s amazing.

 

Joe Cecala  

Those are the case studies of the people we haven’t helped that would. Be the next market, free marketplace of ideas, and open it up so people can invest in companies that are fighting chance.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s so awesome, man. As we start to close this out for today, and this has just been amazing information. I’ve enjoyed the conversation. What’s the best advice you could give somebody right now, an entrepreneur who’s thinking, You know what, I’m going to go public someday, and the thing, and that’s their big dream. And if I remember, right, you know, I’m actually sort of hoping you could answer this for me, but me 10 years ago, because before I knew what I did today, what would you tell them?

 

Joe Cecala  

I mean, okay, so there’s, there’s two things. The first thing is, it’s a very simple and it’s very philosophical, but never quit. Just put put those words on a wall somewhere, and just never quit. Because if there weren’t for bad days as an entrepreneur, there would be no days. Okay, so you just have to adopt a mindset, a philosophy, that says, this bad day, well, I’ll get through it, and you’ll have a winning day, and then you’ll and take the second piece of advice is, take the small wins as big wins. Take the 400 times it didn’t work and that you never quit, and the 401st time when it does work, that’s a huge win. And focus your attention on the on the wins that are going to get you to the finish line, because you know, eventually you’re going to be talking to, like I said, the book runner and the underwriter and the CPA and all those professionals, and if you don’t have your vision that you’ve not quit on the purpose behind what you’re doing. You know, I see great ideas. I see people who just become so discouraged. And maybe that’s the third piece of advice which I’ve done. I surround myself with. I believe it. There’s a great tape by James Valvano Coach Jimmy beat and he he talks about his father and how much he loved his father, and he realized after his father died, he said, Well, what was it about my father? And he said he believed it surround yourself with people who believe in the idea and believe in you, and if they don’t believe in you, don’t make them wrong. Just say you believe in something else. Go, go your way. We need true believers that are never going to quit, and that are going to take the little wins and turn them into big wins. If you can do those three things, you become you. You win the prize, and then, you know, I’m looking forward to you. I actually, I’m going to follow your story now, because Thank you. Thank you. We want to see you graduate. I want more large public companies. It’s a great company that went public not too long ago in your space called, know, before, yeah, yeah, yeah. They started as a was a group of guys, county Clearwater, Florida, and they did that. They just believed in themselves. They got people that that believed in the company, they had a good purpose, and they never quit. And boom, they’re on the they’re, I think they’re on the NASDAQ now, but sure are right on. I’m actually looking forward to you being on Dream X national, because we’re starting a national exchange as well. So you can graduate to my national exchange.

 

Rick Jordan  

Very cool. When is that going to be? Because I’ll put it in my deck right now.

 

Joe Cecala  

National Exchange is we’re very far along. So I suspect that in about four or five months. It could be as many as six months, we’ll actually apply for our license. Very cool. Yeah, I expect to be open. I’m hoping to be the national exchange will be open by the end of the year, early next year, and fingers crossed, everybody, go and write your congressman pass the Main Street growth act when that passes 180 days after it’s being dries on the law we we expect to apply for that license. So the law looks like it’ll pass this fall, which means that by a year from now, we’ll be talking about the launch of dream X venture. And so it’s within the next 18 months I want to be fully operation. We have 20 people now. We’ve got a really good cadre of of investors. We’ve got our main Capital Group helping us. And I hired the former chief architect of NASDAQ, who’s my CTO now. And we’re, we’re building a wonderful team, state of the art team, and January 1 of next year, I want the national exchange open, and then, and then we’ll talk about getting new.

 

Rick Jordan  

Beautiful. I love it. Joe, amazing conversation. A my man, if for nothing else, I I was all in man for what we were talking about today. I love it. And. Go back everyone listen to this like three more times, because there’s a lot of information in here. And Joe just on, just peeled the onion for us today. Joe, it’s incredible. We can find you on LinkedIn. If you look up the company page, Dream exchange.

 

Joe Cecala  

Website is dreamex.com but yeah, perfect pages. Dream exchange. We have YouTube videos, we have educational videos, we have a social media site for people called dreamx Connect, where, if you’re looking for strategic help, go in there, put your profile in and we have a messaging board, and we’ve got probably at least, we’re approaching over 2000 identities in there. We’re trying to grow that a little bit. But yeah, we’re, we’re all over the place, so Google dream exchange and will find us. We’ll we have a pretty nice look at.

 

Rick Jordan  

That’s awesome. Joe, thanks so much for being on man. Really enjoyed our conversation.

 

Joe Cecala  

Rick, thank you so much. I this was actually really great. I appreciate you.

 

Rick Jordan  

You bet!